architosh on 2D CAD in a 3D BIM world...

[fred johnson]

Interesting article at architosh.com regarding 2d CAD and its existence in an increasingly 3D CAD world. Nothing new for PC users but some interesting takes.

[phansford]

Linky

Pretty weak and pedestrian arguments.... small projects don't need 3D. A point clearly understood by all.

Some of the arguments remind me of CAD v hand-drafting arguments.... 2D is faster 3D... it cost alot... blah, blah, blah. Training will be costly.... so was 2D CAD. You'll lose staff.... those people are called dinosaurs.

To say you wouldn't need 3D to design a badminton court is just ridiculous. I won't need it to do CD's for a re-roof project either. You just won't use the 3D feature for those projects. I'm not using Sketchup for those things either.

Pretty suspect article from a company who writes a 2D CAD program.

[F700ES]

Was that an article or an ad?

[Alfred Scott]

I read it, but this is like me worrying about Hillary Clinton's sexual preference—I wasn't planning to have sex with her anyway, so what difference does it make?

Alfred

[phansford]

I read it, but this is like me worrying about Hillary Clinton's sexual preference—I wasn't planning to have sex with her anyway, so what difference does it make?

Alfred

It is a big deal in most of the architectural world.

While you might not be thinking about 3D design for your company, many are moving in that direction. My oldest son is heading to Ohio State in the Fall to study Aeronautical/Aerospace Engineering. He has to have a computer that will run Autodesk Inventor. Actually - all the engineering students will get a copy of Inventor.

To use your analogy.... ignoring 3D programs - whether BIM or a program like Inventor.... is like being the only straight person in a not-straight bar. You're going to feel out of place at some point.

[pbacot]

It's becoming hard not to use some 3d CG work--or not to want to. In some cases it is informative, even in small projects. I model trellises sometimes because the elevations are so useless in representation.

In some borderline "small" work, it can make a difference in getting the job or being impressive (getting the next job). It does take time and money, but there are improvements in both areas. In many cases outsourcing (even within the country!) is worthwhile.

I am at the level of doing some simple modeling for part of my work but eventually I will need some rendering or large models and it's worthwhile to hand that off to someone who can really pull out the stops. But there's the nagging feeling I can always lose the next job because I can't whip out a rendered fly-by model fast enough.

[phansford]

Peter - we are doing the same. I am using Sketchup and "making the investment" to model our projects. The more we do it, the quicker we become. It certainly helps us also.

[John Cruet]

Was that an article or an ad?

It struck me as a plug for VersaCad.

It all boils down to this:

1. need to produce design in 2D and 3D

2. need to produce production documents in as short a time period as possible, and also to produce as complete and accurate a set of production documents as possible.

In recent years, my firm has learned to smooth out the transition from 3D design modeling and a BIM application to a 2D production framework, with great success and using my Mac-based software and hardware.

A strong case can still be made for PowerCadd, with its turbo-charged drafting regimen. I still don't know of a better, faster 2D CAD program out there that is better.

[F700ES]

I guess I see a need for both (2D/3D). Each has a place and a use.
When I worked for a residential developer we never used 3D until we needed marketing material. Throw the plan and elevation in SU and away you go.
I know you use Vectorworks, is all of it done in 2D like your PCADD work?

Was that an article or an ad?

It struck me as a plug for VersaCad.

It all boils down to this:

1. need to produce design in 2D and 3D

2. need to produce production documents in as short a time period as possible, and also to produce as complete and accurate a set of production documents as possible.

In recent years, my firm has learned to smooth out the transition from 3D design modeling and a BIM application to a 2D production framework, with great success and using my Mac-based software and hardware.

A strong case can still be made for PowerCadd, with its turbo-charged drafting regimen. I still don't know of a better, faster 2D CAD program out there that is better.

[John Cruet]

I guess I see a need for both (2D/3D). Each has a place and a use.
When I worked for a residential developer we never used 3D until we needed marketing material. Throw the plan and elevation in SU and away you go.

I've experimented with Sketchup, going from 3D to 2D with mixed success.

My problem here is I like to be authentic. In a 3D CAD program I can plug in Marvin Windows in my design and, when I project into elevation view, I can copy the view and paste it into a 2D sheet. I then get a drawing I can use as a working document. I cannot use Marvin Window symbols in Sketchup. I've had mixed success scaling components in Sketchup to approximate actual window sizes.

Also, see my post in "Open 3D CAD Discussion."

[phansford]

I think everyone would agree that even if you have a program that has 3D and 2D capabilities - it doesn't mean you will always use the 3D features. And vice-versa. That fact makes the article ridiculous.

John - Have you migrated to Vectorworks? Or just tested it out?

[John Cruet]

John - Have you migrated to Vectorworks? Or just tested it out?

I run either program. I've had these since 1996.

I use PowerCadd most of the time. Like 80% of the time. I use that other program when I need to integrate 3D and 2D, as in schematic design.

I discuss that other program in the 3D forum.

[F700ES]

JC you do know that the Marvin catalog (or most of it) is in the Google 3D warehouse?
Most are starting to do this with their products.

I've experimented with Sketchup, going from 3D to 2D with mixed success.

My problem here is I like to be authentic. In a 3D CAD program I can plug in Marvin Windows in my design and, when I project into elevation view, I can copy the view and paste it into a 2D sheet. I then get a drawing I can use as a working document. I cannot use Marvin Window symbols in Sketchup. I've had mixed success scaling components in Sketchup to approximate actual window sizes.

Also, see my post in "Open 3D CAD Discussion."

[fred johnson]

Somehow or other I think my purpose in pointing out this article was misplaced.. in spite of the obvious VersaCad plug the point seemed to be that there is now and for the forseeable future will be a place and function for 2D CAD capabilities. PC is at the head of the 2D+ pack, the "+" being the WildTools curent and evolving tool sets. OK, nothing new here for PC users, but not all Archintosh readers are PC/WT users and there is an active and continuing market out there for it.

[Alfred Scott]

One thing I've noticed over the years with this forum and others is that there is always some 'thing' out there (3D, BIM,...) that if we don't have it, the world is going to come to an end.

And whenever I hear people bemoaning the lack of 3D, I think they fail to notice how nice it is to have a 'clean desk' without other stuff all over it. All programs that have both 2D and 3D pay a price in the loss of elegant simplicity in the program.

Alfred