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Re: progeCAD Smart was not "light weight"

Postby F700ES » Wed Jan 07, 2009 1:34 pm

Wow, I might be reading this wrong but you seem to be coming off rather blunt. I meant no disrespect with my post and posted it in earnest. When I say "light" I mean no solid modeling, no rendering and correct me if I am wrong but no ARX or visualLisp. I have a copy that I tried and it seemed very usable. I actually had no problems with it. Sorry that you thought I was making fun of the product.
I will admit to giving the other poster a hard time but he/she usually brings this on his/her self. In fact was banned more than once from the CADTutor forums for bad behavior. As you could see here they had no issue with telling people to use Smart for commercial jobs.
Cheers and best of luck :)



caddit wrote:
Give uses a light weight CAD program and hope to entice power users


We don't need a free version to entice power users. Our commercial products already offer excellent value for their low cost. Commercial users were never supposed to be working with Smart! to begin with. If they wanted something "to try out first", that is what the 30-day evaluation period is for.

Our purpose with Smart! was strictly to offer a free way to work well with AutoCAD files for the thousands of deserving charities, students, churches and organizations.

You are also wrong about "light weight CAD". progeCAD Smart! offered full DWG compatibility, AutoLISP and SDS programming as well as many hours of hard work and customization to produce a real piece of software these organizations and students could use. It was very powerful.

It is obvious to me these efforts were not appreciated.

That's a pity.
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Postby Antisthenes » Wed Jan 07, 2009 1:54 pm

F700ES that is soo subjective
i have helped there and was turned on by some chistians (hypocrites) who in turn were banned them selfs for being flame baiters.

if somebody can't control their emotions and abuses there power i would expect others who don't want to also be abused to stand up or maybe not out of fear of reprisal, never a good thing for any healthy forum.

i admire the Intellicad project and am a member of the ODA.

http://www.smart-dwg.com now there is a 50$ well spent.

no i never said use progecad smart for commercial use. use it to know you have an alternative, then find the best intellicad version for your needs. Bricscad Architecturals for instance.
what i do say is use Rhinoceros student discount for commercial use @ 140$ from novedge. because that is how lenient and forward thinking McNeel and associates are.
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Re: progeCAD Smart! has been suspended.

Postby Antisthenes » Wed Jan 07, 2009 2:02 pm

F700ES wrote:
caddit wrote:
i doubt Caddit is going to sue anybody


Unfortunately new registrations for progeCAD Smart! must be temporarily suspended until further notice.


Why, it seemed like a good idea. Give uses a light weight CAD program and hope to entice power users to pay the low cost pro version. I am glad Google went this route with SketchUp.


dude read the news. google is talking about cutting development on sketchup because it is not profitable.


f700es if you are bitter about sharing, why?


and caddit you can be abrasive and reactionary and pushy even against other people who have their own intellicad offerings and i do hope you bring back Smart because it is a good idea other wise people will like i said find a way to get the pro on the gratis.
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Postby F700ES » Wed Jan 07, 2009 2:04 pm

Well, I did not ban you there but I know you were banned. I didn't do it this time but you broke the rules again (by bypassing a ban) and were banned again. I know you think you were the victim but I can only state what I read and saw. You had some great Rhino input and I wished that things had worked out better. You have to remember that most forums are not public and are owned by someone and you have to adhere to their rules. Plain and simple. Don't like the rules, don't join.
I also think that the intellicad project is a great idea. I still think that the DWG file type is intelligent property of the owner.
You might not have explicitly said to use it for commercial use but and I quote, "i doubt Caddit is going to sue anybody" is pretty clear.
As for the student to commercial use of Rhino, seems like a loop-hole to me. They allow it so what-ever, it's their software and can do what they want. Stay with me on this, it's their property.
Last edited by F700ES on Wed Jan 07, 2009 2:21 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: progeCAD Smart! has been suspended.

Postby F700ES » Wed Jan 07, 2009 2:10 pm

Antisthenes wrote:
f700es if you are bitter about sharing, why?



No problem with sharing, just too much of a capitalist at times ;)
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Postby Antisthenes » Wed Jan 07, 2009 2:58 pm

lol

cool i guess i could have picked a less evident user name and got away with it like i do at so many other forums, but i know i am in the right and figured Cadtutor who even had made sub-forums for me would realize this based on having banned that 'other guy' who seemed to be the one who caused the whole provocation. oh well...
no loss here i was just being altruistic as a good use of my time when i was bored and had nothing else to do is how i feel.

the loop hole on that rhino deal is that it is attached to that individual as i see it(no transfer). you take it with you as a person where you go and don't get edu priced upgrades once no longer a student.

as far as the dwg format autocad was told by the SEC or whoever the gov agency that broke them up was not to mess with Intellicad/Softdesk/Visio so they both have equal rights to that format(technically) and that autocad tried to break the format and did several times only to be subverted shows their hostility towards competition and upset their own costumers.

there is a balance between capitalism and socialism now especially with the economic collapse in effect, could you even imagine a world with out SS and medicare? no new deal and what mccain would do vs obama?
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Postby F700ES » Wed Jan 07, 2009 3:14 pm

Well he's gone too. I stayed out of both situations as I converse with you here and I was friends with the other person. Better to stay out and stay neutral.
Again that is Mcneel's right to do that so no big deal.
Uh, AutoDesk has not been broken up.
Well there will never be a utopia and we have to do the best with what we have. For the record I voted Obama and I an not affiliated with any party but I do not believe that he is the second coming. Simply the lesser of 2 evils.

Antisthenes wrote:lol

cool i guess i could have picked a less evident user name and got away with it like i do at so many other forums, but i know i am in the right and figured Cadtutor who even had made sub-forums for me would realize this based on having banned that 'other guy' who seemed to be the one who caused the whole provocation. oh well...
no loss here i was just being altruistic as a good use of my time when i was bored and had nothing else to do is how i feel.

the loop hole on that rhino deal is that it is attached to that individual as i see it(no transfer). you take it with you as a person where you go and don't get edu priced upgrades once no longer a student.

as far as the dwg format autocad was told by the SEC or whoever the gov agency that broke them up was not to mess with Intellicad/Softdesk/Visio so they both have equal rights to that format(technically) and that autocad tried to break the format and did several times only to be subverted shows their hostility towards competition and upset their own costumers.

there is a balance between capitalism and socialism now especially with the economic collapse in effect, could you even imagine a world with out SS and medicare? no new deal and what mccain would do vs obama?
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Postby Antisthenes » Wed Jan 07, 2009 3:59 pm

FTC not SEC

read this: http://www.carlsonsw.com/IntelliCADInfo.htm

* 1994, August: "IntelliCAD is purchased by Softdesk of Henniker, NH."
* 1996, December: "Autodesk acquires Softdesk... Softdesk apparently did not tell Autodesk about its AutoCAD clone."
* 1997, March: "Autodesk investigated by the FTC (Federal Trade Commission) over the alleged monopoly status of AutoCAD... The FTC allowed Autodesk to purchase Softdesk after Autodesk agreed to: (1) spin off IntelliCAD; (2) not attempt re-acquire the technology; (3) not attempt to acquire any company that owns or controls IntelliCAD; and (4) not interfere with employees who leave Autodesk to work with IntelliCAD... IntelliCAD was spun off as Boomerang Technology in San Jose, CA."
* 1997, March: "Visio bought Boomerang."
* 1998, March: "IntelliCAD 98 ships. The price was originally pegged at US$495; upon release, the price dropped to $349 as a 'special introductory price'; the price drops further to $149 at computer superstores, such as CompUSA. Through to the end of June, the first three months of sales for IntelliCAD were nearly 12,000 licenses, producing $3 million in gross revenue -- an average of $250 per license."
* 1998, May: "IntelliCAD is suddenly incompatible with AutoCAD! Autodesk releases a maintenance release for AutoCAD R14.01 that makes a change to the .dwg format, and preventing IntelliCAD from reading drawing files... Visio updated IntelliCAD 98 to work with 14.01 files."
* 1999, July 27: "Visio cuts IntelliCAD loose by granting the IntelliCAD Technology Consortium a royalty-free, perpetual license for the source code of the IntelliCAD 2000 technology. The ITC was set up by Visio, but run by an independent board of directors.
* 1999, September: "IntelliCAD Technical Consortium opens its Web site at http://www.intellicad.org/."


then again i still think file format reverse engineering is free game everybody is doing it and only in rare cases do people pay royalties and that is for geometry libraries and such (ACIS)
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Postby F700ES » Wed Jan 07, 2009 5:11 pm

No mention of the file format which AutoDesk developed WAY before SoftDesk bought Intellicad. Sorry, not the same thing here. There are talking about the intellicad engine. The only mention was that AutoCAD changed the format on version r14. Not illegal since they own the file format. IntelliCAD updated to read the new format.
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Postby Antisthenes » Wed Jan 07, 2009 5:33 pm

adobe could say the same for PDF but it isn't

information and ideas can never be owned so to say, as hard as corporations and other lifeless institutions try, once the cat is out of the bag it never goes back in.

we all know interoperability/cooperation is the key to our success even the GSA and other government agencies legislate this.

hence autodesk is being a frivolous bitch
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Postby F700ES » Wed Jan 07, 2009 8:26 pm

Antisthenes wrote:adobe could say the same for PDF but it isn't

information and ideas can never be owned so to say, as hard as corporations and other lifeless institutions try, once the cat is out of the bag it never goes back in.

we all know interoperability/cooperation is the key to our success even the GSA and other government agencies legislate this.

hence autodesk is being a frivolous bitch


Sorry but you are wrong. That is why we have a "patent office" to own ideas and designs. I am done with this discussion as we are getting nowhere. We'll just agree to disagree.
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progeCAD Smart Suspended

Postby caddit » Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:03 pm

Wow, I might be reading this wrong but you seem to be coming off rather blunt.


Using software illegally is a serious matter. I am especially saddened to read open discussion among professional people who clearly expect payment for their own services but seem to expect software and support of high quality from others for free (or next to it).

As to other "brands" - buyer beware, you often get what you pay for.
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Re: progeCAD Smart Suspended

Postby F700ES » Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:00 pm

caddit wrote:
Wow, I might be reading this wrong but you seem to be coming off rather blunt.


Using software illegally is a serious matter. I am especially saddened to read open discussion among professional people who clearly expect payment for their own services but seem to expect software and support of high quality from others for free (or next to it).

As to other "brands" - buyer beware, you often get what you pay for.


I agree and that is why I questioned the use of Smart in a commercial setting from the get go if you look at the earlier posts.
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progeCAD Smart!

Postby caddit » Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:31 pm

I agree and that is why I questioned the use of Smart in a commercial setting from the get go if you look at the earlier posts.


Thank you.
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Postby icadsales » Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:26 am

Some of you seem to throw things out just for the sake of speaking. The DWG format is fair game and you should be thanking those that cracked it instead of speaking as if it is some holy grail of CAD formats that should be licensed. By saying that others should not be able to read and write to it is basically admitting that the company supplying your tool, which is all AutoCAD or progeCAD is, owns your intellectual property and if they desire to, they can forbid you from your designs by simply denying you the use of the file format. Does anyone think beyond what the law says to what is the reality of a real world. By saying AutoCAD owns DWG you are admitting they also own every single drawing you have ever created or ever will create. Raise your hands if that's what you agree with. I thought not.

To all of you know every things who are so darn informed about free software, why it is produced, and why progeCAD Smart! is available: the Free (<a href="http://software.progesoft.com/progeSOFT_US/progeCAD2008smart.exe">progeCAD Smart!</a>) is called <b>charityware</b>. A term invented by progeSOFT and not the first time they have produced software for charity. You can download and use it for free for non-commercial use, and if you like it, you are asked to donate to a worthy cause, <a href="http://www.firstgiving.com/progecadsmart">doctors without borders for darfur</a>. Thats why they buillt it, thats why it is available, and thats why you don't always know everything about everything.

The non-commercial use clause is just simple business sense. To be able to offer free software one has to pay their developers, and without developers there is no free software. The Pro version is very comparable to AutoCAD. Does it have everything AutoCAD does? No. Are you willing to pay $4000 USD for the few extra features it does have? Are there bugs in progeCAD? Of course, there are bugs in all software and you know what, there are a LOT of bugs in AutoCAD. Those of you who have had problems with IntelliCAD flavors in the past I challenge you, go try the latest progeCAD Pro and see if those problems still exist. I bet you can rely on it just as you rely on AutoCAD, and that money you save? Start by taking a loved one out to dinner, then perhaps a short vacation, and then that (fill in the blank here) you have had your eye on? [Buy it][Put a down payment on it][rent it] or give the money to charity and feel like a million bucks!
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