Vertical Vs Horizontal Living another direction?

For discussion of structural innovations ranging from 3D Honeycomb to genomic and self-generating formal systems. All welcome.

Regarding the Palaces Concept

Postby usarender » Sat Oct 06, 2007 6:25 pm

It is not personal, no offense, but I wish to make a few comments on the Palaces arrangements.


1. The palaces arrangement, as proposed by Lion is interesting. However, concerns grow with how the inner confines, out of the reach of such terraces would be treated in terms of windows. We would be forced to use an abundance of light wells, but not actual windows to the exterior in many of the interior spaces. This creates a shopping center type effect, on the majority of interior spaces, except those that are lucky to be on the exterior perimeter of the stepped pyramids. By using interior light wells, we are bringing back light into the interiors, but from on high. Many people would rather look out a window with some type of view, rather then look into a public space.


2. Further, we are resolving public spaces, but allowing more sunshine but in effect are obstructing direct winter sunlight from coming into the interiors, as would occur in normal windows. Thus, it is a trade off. We are taking away from the built interior environment and giving it back to public spaces.


3. Also, it assumes cities will continue to be organized in the same tired old way of "block", a notion which goes back to thousands of years in essence. Further, it adopts a "palace" mentality similar to the "zigurates" or "mastabas" of ancient times, which many could see as an outdated shape to use for modern buildings. The terracing on the exterior is truly nice, and affords much space for exterior gardens, recreational areas and plenty of sunshine/views and opportunities to explore solar energy. The exposition truly brings up some interesting points with respect to highly dense urban areas and how to design efficient conglomerates of spaces that can house great quantities of people.


4. If we brake the palaces into super imposed squares, we have structural issues to consider. Cantilevers may not be an issue on the interior, but they become an issue on the exterior, as well as the bridging of the stacked structures, earthquake resistance and similar issues.

And the structural issues need clarification. Simply using the latest technology of high strength materials brings up concerns of their economic application. If these can be, so to speak, manufactured in everyones back yard, with simple construction store type materials remains to be seen.


5. If we assume cities will be built on flat areas that can be flooded, this creates all types of issues to deal with.


6. Creating a perfect system in every way also is difficult to do, as eventually it rarely is built as city planners envision.


7. As shown, the structures of the future also cannot be predicated on a technology that has not become mainstream as well, such as hydrogen fuel.
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Further Considerations on PALACES arrangement

Postby usarender » Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:12 pm


8. If this system is better then other structural systems, more easy to produce, manufacture, cut, assemble, then why is the issue of structure still not clear and changing?


9. Also, as some have suggested, truly building sections are important for architects to visualize these palaces. Without such sections, the building becomes somewhat vague. Now, one can state the amount of information does not allow time to produce such detailed architectural drawings, and this can be understood. But some point along the way it will be important, for us to truly understand these structures.


10. Further denoting the structures Palaces may be nice for a marketing campaign, but in what way are these truly palaces? What in essence makes them palaces? Can the concept of living in a palace be truly culturally correct for all countries in the world today? Truly, for Arab or Eastern cultures it makes sense. But in the Western world, many will associate this with kings and living back in the ancient times. Today we think of more modern terms or vocabulary to refer to the most modern habitable buildings to live in. The term Palaces may not be culturally correct for every culture today.


11. The issue of the exterior skin is important as well, as the cost issues in using large quantities of pv glass in the exteriors brings up economic issues.


12. Then are issues of urban variety and individual expression. If we have society essentially as a homogeneous grid of equal blocks of buildings, we are not allowing for variety and multiplicity of form, as needed in passive systems to allow the buildings to adjust and respond to their environment, rather then creating an artificial environment in a desert and then figuring out how to make it work and not be flooded out.

Issues also of people distinguishing between buildings, landmarks, important cultural points of reference, and cities of multi spectrum of architectural features and variety ends up being homogenized into a steady rhythm of repetitive structures, which in essence is not allowing for complete freedom in our architecture. Rather, it is suggesting our cities will be completely guided all along the way by a master system that will be followed in every detail, which is rarely the case, as stated.
Last edited by usarender on Fri Dec 14, 2007 2:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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A few more considerations

Postby usarender » Wed Oct 10, 2007 7:34 pm


In the forum on residential design, there is an interesting post on honey comb housing as an alternative. I believe that topic brings up many issues relevant to modern cities that need to be dealt with, if we are to create successful cities for the future. It seems that forum and topic has been one of the most overlooked, in favor of more technical topics.


The technical topics, such as the one on becoming energy free, may seem truly technical, but many posts there also are full of mistakes, are mis statements of technical issues and fact and show incongruent ideas and architectural thought. Simple issues of long standing ideas of passive solar energy are not understood, are revised in a tired way, lacking decent illustrations, and show a complete lack of understanding of passive solar issues, particularly in the thinking on trying to adapt stock plans to passive solar systems. So how can these topics in any way be considered truly the greatest on these forums, and attracting the most visitors? Simply because they are full of technical information? Yes, technical information truly few architects here are taking seriously and truly discussing in a consistent, informed and objective way.


In the palaces arrangement, for example, many traditional passive solar system ideas are used, with some interesting new ideas in this regard. It is difficult, moreover, to apply every single means of passive solar design in such large system. Many techniques we can apply to smaller scale residential housing become an intricate game of trade offs in these larger systems.

Thus, the design of large public spaces, and applying passive solar techniques in an efficient way is not easy. Making our buildings truly ecologically friendly is also determined by cultural views. To some, this has nothing to do with ecological architecture, to simply apply the latest of green technology. There is much debate in this respect. What we consider green technology today will be considered not so green in the near future.

These are just a few issues.

More to follow soon.
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Skyscraper Typology:: Problems?

Postby usarender » Mon Nov 19, 2007 8:53 pm

In this discussion of vertical versus horizontal living, the problems related to sky-scrapers is an interesting and related thread -->>

Skyscraper Typology:: problems?
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The New Vertical City

Postby usarender » Fri Dec 14, 2007 2:34 pm

The New Vertical City

The Gateway to the Sky.

The New Global Pyramid.
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The Burj Dubai

Postby usarender » Mon Dec 17, 2007 5:45 pm

Burj Dubai

The Burj Dubai is a supertall skyscraper currently under construction in the "New Downtown" of Dubai, United Arab Emirates. When it is completed in late 2008, it will be the tallest man-made structure in the world. Scheduled for occupancy in 2009, the building is part of a 2 km² (1.54 mi²) development called the 'Burj Downtown' and is located at the "First Interchange" (aka "Defence roundabout") along Sheikh Zayed Road at Doha Street. The building was designed by Adrian Smith before he left Skidmore, Owings and Merrill LLP (SOM) of Chicago to start his own independent practice, Adrian Smith + Gordon Gill Architecture in October 2006.[3] SOM continues to lead the architectural, structural engineering and mechanical engineering of the Burj Dubai. The total budget for this project is about $4 billion US dollars.

There is a video there on this page also.

When the Global Pyramid is built, it will be more then 140 times taller then the tallest sky-scraper in existence, including the Burj Dubai.
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Re: continuing the quest

Postby ExperiencingArchitecture » Sat Jul 12, 2008 2:47 pm

giventofly wrote:I'm more looking for specific examples like Plan Voisin Paris or the Broad Acre scheme or the Bionic Tower, Buckminster Fuller and Yona Friedman's work.
Large scale urban regeneration schemes or New build thats openly address the issues of transport density politics(to an extent)the environment and scale.
Where architects designers artists theoreticians and planners have attempted to address the City as an entity that can be design or planned in a 3 dimensional sense.
Most of these schemes such like the Mile high or Plan voisin were never built but the ideas are still very relevant and incredibly influential. I have read many books on the subject but feel i am still missing obvious examples....

I think the optimized city of the future will consider both aspects - horizontal and vertical and blend the two into a stream-lined solution, with the city being designed in three dimensions, as suggested by giventofly. Some of the resulting solutions may seem conceptual, but it is only until one of these ideas really takes off that the future of our cities could be re-shaped. Many large cities today are being planned in the traditional way, such as Dubai, that although billions are being invested there, the same urban models are being re-applied with new local cultural and economic issues being the determining factors, as they plan for the future of those areas. Issues such as urban density, transportation, building scale, environmental impact and sustainability become re-emerging themes.
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Vertical Living - A New Direction

Postby futuristarchitect » Sun Nov 23, 2008 8:07 pm

This topic is very relevant, as vertical living becomes now possible with new visionary ideas being proposed.

We are only a 100 KM to the future, and the new vertical cities are the path to get there. Is that too much to ask?

Time for new visionaries to start dreaming and in doing so, to help the world forget the economic miseries it is facing and lead the way for a brighter tomorrow.

Vertical cities are the answer to many urban sprawl problems including -->>

- Crime.

- Availability of land for trees, farming, other applications.

- Use of rain water.

- The value of exploring space.

- The new technology being generated by new vertical cities.

- New urban ways of living and accessing space.

- New urban organizations of multi-layered activities existing all within a complete, self-contained nucleus of a city in the sky.

- New technology allowing for many improvements possible to social services, when the same are grouped into a coordinated city unit.

-Natural disasters which may occur in poorly planned land areas.

- Global heating, as these new structures control, clean and contribute to a better environment, as more planning takes place in their erection and maintenance.

- Reduced grid of transportation systems needed, thus reducing need for oil.

- Possibility of natural energy sources in great abundance such as wind power at great altitudes.

- Improved communication capabilities by high altitude communication systems and direct link high speed data systems.

- Reduced cost of sending man to space.

- Investment availability to the common citizen, who can thus capitalize on the growth exponential of such vertical cities and participate in the gains of the same over time, and governments and citizens join in investing into growing the value and profitability of such cities, their square foot value, and the interior activities within.

- A new era of economic prosperity, as shopping malls, city services, recreational areas and living areas achieve a higher level of integration on a global scale, as visitors from other sides of the globe can now reach the multiple cities in the sky quickly by accessing the global ring.

- These will contribute to space travel as well, reducing the cost of sending equipment and laboratories into space and reducing the cost of accessing the global ring, as the central shaft of these cities will allow the cargo to be lifted into space at a fraction of current cost.

- Many other reasons and factors to be shared later on.

Further info in these links -->>

Among others.
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