<<< Wind Energy Skyscrapers >>>

For discussion of structural innovations ranging from 3D Honeycomb to genomic and self-generating formal systems. All welcome.

<<< Wind Energy Skyscrapers >>>

Postby gaetanomarano » Sun Jun 03, 2007 10:02 pm

.

I don't know if a "Wind Energy Skyscraper" like this could even be built someday (the concepts I've seen so far, just add two-three rotors to a skyscraper to save 10-15% of energy) however, it looks like a very good idea that worth an article:

http://www.gaetanomarano.it/articles/028energy.html


Image

.
User avatar
gaetanomarano
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2007 9:55 pm

Postby alexneverhurts » Mon Jun 04, 2007 1:08 am

Not sure about the efficiency of those massive fans, but apparently such structure wasn't come from considerate engineers.
User avatar
alexneverhurts
 
Posts: 43
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2007 12:52 am

Postby gaetanomarano » Mon Jun 04, 2007 7:06 pm

alexneverhurts wrote:Not sure about the efficiency of those massive fans, but apparently such structure wasn't come from considerate engineers.

the small rotors (best if smaller) give more energy since they run (also) with slow speed winds and faster than big rotors with high speed winds ... the image published in my article is NOT a "project" but just a sketch to explain a concept ... clearly, the REAL buildings will be very much different from my sketch and will need lots of study and wind tunnel tests to discover the best and most energy-efficient design
.
User avatar
gaetanomarano
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2007 9:55 pm

What is the best location for wind generators on skyscrapers

Postby JWmHarmon » Mon Jun 04, 2007 7:23 pm

I was in Columbus, Ohio, USA, recently trying to get into a skyscraper on a breezy day. The downdraft was strong and blowing in my face as I approached the entrance. It required significant effort to get to the door.

An analysis of the varying air pressures surrounding a building might give sufficient data to determine the best location of wind generators. They could become an integral design element of new skyscrapers.

It might increase the efficientcy to channel the wind through a Venturi opening. Perhaps it could then be redirected to minimize the surface air flow.

Another thought for some enterprising engineer: Design an elevator that runs a generator on the way down letting gravity supply the needed energy to turn the generator.
JWmHarmon
 
Posts: 151
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2004 1:43 pm
Location: Ohio

Postby mx2 » Mon Jun 04, 2007 11:05 pm

I had always assumed the surface airflow of high-rises was a vertical trajectory mostly and/or horizontal but parallel to the surface, except for at the very top or edges...like a river of water slamming up against a boulder. It wouldn't make sense to have rotors facing the wall then...but I'm willing to be wrong. 8)

mx2.5
mx2
millennium club
 
Posts: 1985
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2006 11:22 am
Location: Miami, Florida

The Green Skyscraper by Ken Yeang

Postby JWmHarmon » Tue Jun 05, 2007 12:40 am

The following site shows a rather long article that includes references to wind generated power from scyscrapers among other technologies includine using updrafts to generate electricity.

It make references to "The Green Skyscraper."

Yeang, Ken.��� The Green Skyscraper, London, Munich, New York: Prestel Verlag, 1999.

http://sd-metroinfo.org/Sustainable_Skyscrapers.htm

Title of the article:
The City College of New York
The School of Architecture, Urban Design and Landscape Architecture
"THE ECOLOGICAL SKYSCRAPER"
Jos. Antonio Columna - May 12, 2004
JWmHarmon
 
Posts: 151
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2004 1:43 pm
Location: Ohio

Postby alexneverhurts » Wed Jun 06, 2007 12:19 pm

gaetanomarano wrote:
alexneverhurts wrote:Not sure about the efficiency of those massive fans, but apparently such structure wasn't come from considerate engineers.

the small rotors (best if smaller) give more energy since they run (also) with slow speed winds and faster than big rotors with high speed winds ... the image published in my article is NOT a "project" but just a sketch to explain a concept ... clearly, the REAL buildings will be very much different from my sketch and will need lots of study and wind tunnel tests to discover the best and most energy-efficient design
.

Then I guess the con of your design is simply the cost issue of both establishment and maintenance. And the improvement in efficiency of using array of motors rather than one (wind turbine) is still doubtful to meet the exceeding cost.
BTW, it seems that some people here was confused, that you're actually proposing a new idea of windmill serves as a power plant, not an energy efficient building, right?
User avatar
alexneverhurts
 
Posts: 43
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2007 12:52 am

Postby mx2 » Wed Jun 06, 2007 1:04 pm

Great article JW...it's irrelevant whether it's to be self-sustaining or generate power for others since the issue is exactly the same. This quote was somewhat in line with the original posters idea...

Since wind power increases in direct relation to height, the orientation and the built form of Skyscrapers offer a great opportunity for harnessing this resource by using wind turbines and thus reducing the consumption of fossil fuel. The Wind Tower by Richard Rogers, a design for a small triangular plot in a hill of central Tokyo, is an example for this type of development funneling the high wind velocities of high altitudes for efficient wind energy generation design. The building�s shape encourages wind to pass through a gap between the main building and a freestanding service tower.� The curve of the building compresses and accelerates the wind by 200 percent providing a greater amount of clean power. Computer models for this design indicate that, if built, the Tower will not require additional power and perhaps export saved energy to the city grid. The service tower also acts as chimney ventilation under the action of the sun and wind.


The answer lies in aerodynamics; since buildings do not have to be extruded boxes. Channelling wind, sun and heat and responding with architectural form can lead to some very interesting buildings. Sustainability is certainly the "wave" of the future...

mx2.5
mx2
millennium club
 
Posts: 1985
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2006 11:22 am
Location: Miami, Florida

Re: What is the best location for wind generators on skyscra

Postby gaetanomarano » Wed Jun 06, 2007 10:53 pm

JWmHarmon wrote:They could become an integral design element of new skyscrapers.


but only if will solved the problems of the vibrations and noise of the rotors (like those faced to-day by the peoples living near the existing wind turbines) since these "green buildings" will have hundreds apartments and offices

.
User avatar
gaetanomarano
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2007 9:55 pm

Postby gaetanomarano » Wed Jun 06, 2007 11:00 pm

mx2 wrote:It wouldn't make sense to have rotors facing the wall...


in my wind-building concept the rotors "face the walls" since ...it has NO walls... :) ... its structure is completely OPEN to allow the wind to drive (also) the rotors inside it

.
User avatar
gaetanomarano
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2007 9:55 pm

Re: The Green Skyscraper by Ken Yeang

Postby gaetanomarano » Wed Jun 06, 2007 11:06 pm

JWmHarmon wrote:It make references to "The Green Skyscraper."


my "Wind Energy Skyscrapers" are NOT a new version of "green buildings" (with two-three rotors to save 10-15% of energy) but a kind of specialized "energy-only production buildings" with hundreds rotors and no apartments or offices

.
User avatar
gaetanomarano
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2007 9:55 pm

Postby gaetanomarano » Wed Jun 06, 2007 11:21 pm

alexneverhurts wrote:Then I guess the con of your design is simply the cost issue of both establishment and maintenance. And the improvement in efficiency of using array of motors rather than one (wind turbine) is still doubtful to meet the exceeding cost.


"low cost energy" is the goal of my proposal, and, since the current price of the standard wind turbines' energy already equals the price of the oil/methane-derived energy (as you can read in this article) the (50% lower price) energy of the Wind Energy Skyscrapers would be the (absolutely) CHEAPEST source of the energy market!

("50%" is only my guess, of course)

BTW, it seems that some people here was confused, that you're actually proposing a new idea of windmill serves as a power plant, not an energy efficient building, right?


you're right ...my design is an "energy-only production building" not a "green building" then (to avoid any confusion) I've added this text in my article:

To avoid any misunderstanding about my idea, I wish to say that my "Wind Energy Skyscrapers" are NOT a new version of "green buildings" built INSIDE the cities (with thousands peoples living and working in their apartments and offices near the rotors!) but just a kind of specialized and uninhabited "energy production buildings" built a few miles away from cities to save on the energy-transfer loss.

.
Last edited by gaetanomarano on Wed Jun 06, 2007 11:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
gaetanomarano
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2007 9:55 pm

Postby gaetanomarano » Wed Jun 06, 2007 11:42 pm

mx2 wrote:...it's irrelevant whether it's to be self-sustaining or generate power for others...


my W.E.S. is not a "green building" with two-three rotors added to an apartments and offices' building but a TRUE and FULL "Wind Energy POWER PLANT" (something like the existing nuclear, oil and methane power plants, but without any radiation, pollution and CO2 emissions...) built a few miles away from cities and NEVER inside them

probably, a better (and clearer) name for my idea is: "Skyscraper-like Wind Power Plant"

.
User avatar
gaetanomarano
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2007 9:55 pm

Postby mx2 » Thu Jun 07, 2007 1:16 am

So it's just a BIG windmill? That's it?...

Oh, phooey...big deal. Sorry but there's nothing much to it then. The problems are minor and quite honestly it's better to build miles and miles of windmills on large open farms far awya form city cores...

mx2.5
mx2
millennium club
 
Posts: 1985
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2006 11:22 am
Location: Miami, Florida

Postby lekizz » Thu Jun 07, 2007 7:10 am

I agree with mx2, it looks ugly as sin, personally I would prefer one or two large graceful wind turbines than dozens of tiny ones. I would think that one large turbine will be far more efficient than dozens of tiny ones. Imagine the maintainance required on your 50 generators and 200 blades!!

The advantage of incorporating wind turbines into high rise buildings is (a) modern cities demand lots of high rise buildings (b) cities (and high rise buildings) demand lots of energy (c) wind energy is cheap (d) air movement is a lot greater at high altitudes
lekizz
millennium club
 
Posts: 1236
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 9:22 am
Location: UK

Next

Return to New Structure Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

User Control Panel

Login

Who is online

In total there is 1 user online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 508 on Thu Jun 25, 2009 11:21 am

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest
DesignCommunity   ·   ArchitectureWeek   ·   Great Buildings   ·   Archiplanet   ·   Books   ·   Blogs   ·   Search
Special thanks to our sustaining subscribers Building Design UK, Building Design News UK, and Building Design Tenders UK.