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csintexas
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Joined: 06 Feb 2006
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Location: USA
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 Posted: Fri May 08, 2009 7:33 am Post subject: |
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You must be seeing things that I don't.
I see a picture of a sheetrock wall with a hole cut in it showing the edge of two studs and some insulation with a drawing of more studs and some labeling overlaid on top of it.
In the area of question I see a number one within a white octagonal background. I see some nail holes where he located two more studs
I see a dotted rectangle labeled as ledger board that doesn't seem to match the photograph of the supposed other side.
As far as I know this ledger board did not come loose. It has four lag screws
going into two studs and an additional 5 lag bolts going into whatever. I don't think an elephant could pry that board loose. I would be more concerned that no joist hangers where used.
As far as I can tell the stairs on the neighbors house fell. The attachment of the stairs to the deck looked to be poor (just toe nailed) and probably the footing on the bottom side was poorly done.
Still trying to figure out what this has to do with the designer (or is that tax assessor?)
Honestly phansford if this is the sort of thing you would provide as evidence you need to get out of the business
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Checkpoint43
Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 180
Location: Lexington, VA
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| Posted: Fri May 08, 2009 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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I agree. These photos show poor workmanship.
I don't see the connection between this evidence, and the initial statements against residential designers.
Wait a minute!
Didn't I see these photos somewhere before?
Yes! Of course!
Al Gore used them to prove his theory of Global Warming!
He called it "The Lag Bolt Syndrome".
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djswan
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Joined: 17 Aug 2007
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Location: Montana, USA
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| Posted: Sat May 09, 2009 6:39 am Post subject: |
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What about the idiot owners who buy this garbage? I say let the stairs fall! with bear traps at the bottom and snakes. Now that's a design.
Decks are a luxury item. BAN DECKS!! because it rythems with spandex.
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csintexas
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Joined: 06 Feb 2006
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Location: USA
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| Posted: Sun May 10, 2009 5:49 am Post subject: |
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As far as I could tell, the ordinance that required an architect was enacted only a few years ago. It is not uncommon that when such laws are passed it only applies to new people wanting to get into the business anyone who had a history of being in practice before is normally grandfathered in. I see no proof that this person does not have an exemption. I don't know what other laws may apply to people in that industry in that state.
I have seen absolutely zero evidence that he is actually calling himself an architect (other than listing himself on the permits in a spot where the wording leaves no other choice)
I certainly do not see any correlation between this builder doing a poor job on a few decks and this designer.
On your website you go as far as to suggest that anyone who has a house designed by this guy should be concerned, which is absolutely ridiculous. I think that sort of fear mongering is irresponsible.
Why does the front page of your site show a drafting machine Mark? What is your real agenda?
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Mark Mc
Joined: 30 Apr 2009
Posts: 25
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| Posted: Sun May 10, 2009 11:41 am Post subject: |
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| djswan wrote: | What about the idiot owners who buy this garbage? I say let the stairs fall! with bear traps at the bottom and snakes. Now that's a design.
Decks are a luxury item. BAN DECKS!! because it rythems with spandex. |
We're talking about porches, methods of ingress and egress, not decks, you might be in the wrong thread. |
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Mark Mc
Joined: 30 Apr 2009
Posts: 25
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| Posted: Sun May 10, 2009 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Checkpoint43 wrote: | I noticed several photos of poor workmanship on the job, but nothing displaying the designer's actual drawings.
Clearly, the designs were sufficient to meet permit requirements. |
You have no clue if the drawings were sufficient or not, I can show you plenty of designs that were "sufficient" to get permits that do not meet code and aren't safe. To suggest because a building permit was issued that they were fine is to say since the house passed final inspection and received it's CO the porch wouldn't collapse after only a few year, but it did, and a person was injured (no relation to me, I don't even know the person that was injured). The people approving plans are not always the most qualified people, toss in a little corruption and who knows what type of crap will get passed (just look at the after inspection pictures). My understanding is that the person that originally built the porch wasn't qualified, I agree with that 100 percent, that falls on the builder and the inspector. Since the guy impersonating the architect and the builder are one in the same, he is to blame. Furthermore if you read the letters from the Village to the homeowners the work was stopped for an architect (the impersonator) to be brought out to make recommendations. Then the architect contacted an engineer. Why do you think that is? Why would an architect have to contact an engineer for something as simple as a front porch? Could it be be that he contacted the engineer because he couldn't seal the plans himself because he is not a licensed architect?
| Checkpoint43 wrote: | | This topic should be shoddy builders, and not "Lets prevent the designer from drawing houses, because he isn't a licensed architect." |
The title "Unlicensed architect, DuPage County Illinois" is correct, it accurately describes the situation.
| Checkpoint43 wrote: | If the homes were drawn by a licensed architect (full AIA credentials), the workmanship wouldn't be any better.
Would you still blame the architect in this case? |
I doubt that, most licensed architects would have had better plans for the original porch. Would I still blame the Architect? If it was a design build firm owned by the architect, yes I would.
| Checkpoint43 wrote: | The article is clearly nothing more than a jealous hate campaign against residential designers.
I call them as I see them. |
Your responses are nothing more than a designer with architect envy. If you want to be an architect go to school, do the internship, take the tests and get a license. You are trying to turn this into something thing that it's not. This guy isn't a designer that designs things that he's legally allowed to design, this is about an unlicensed individual designing structures only an Illinois licensed architect is allowed to design, we're talking about multi-family homes, multi-lot homes and commercial buildings as well as the guy representing himself as an architect to the people who bought the structures and others. Here in Illinois there is no home designer licensing, anyone can call themselves a home designer, heck, I'm a home designer, so is my - and her folks. What's there to be jealous of?
| csintexas wrote: | | If the form only uses the word "architect" with no provision for a legal residential designer than that designer would most likely just use that space. In that case architect would be used as a generic term referring to the person who designed the house. Regardless of the legality architect is still sometimes used as a generic term. |
Doesn't really matter how he uses it, without a license it is illegal to do so.
| csintexas wrote: | | If you want to get the language policed try the AIA. I can tell you that people try to refer to me as an architect quite often. Would I check the minutes of the meeting to make sure the person recording them did not refer to me as someones architect -No |
I hope you correct those people that mistakenly refer to you as an architect. And that you tell them that you don't have the education that an architect does, that you haven't taken and passed the tests that an architect does and that you are not licensed as an architect. Why don't you tell me how many city meetings you have attended and have been referred to as the architect on a commercial project.
| csintexas wrote: | | Your stupid drawing don't mean anything. I know what a 2x4 stud wall looks like what I don't know is what is on the other side of those lag screws. Unless you can provide photographic evidence it is only your word. |
Insulting my drawings is juvenile, another sign of architect envy (and I'm not even an architect). The drawings are just an effort to illustrate the situation, I'm not submitting them for an award or anything. I did provide photographic evidence, you just don't want to see it. Had you looked at all the pictures on the website you would have. Have a look at the images below, the first picture will show you on of the three lag screws that go only into the sheathing. The second picture will show you another of the three lag screws and the coat hanger going through the hole where the third lags screw was. I'd take the time to dig up and post the full size images but what would be the point you're stuck on the designer issue.
| csintexas wrote: | | Mark Mc wrote: | | "Corruption, the Village officials live in houses designed/built by him, rather large houses. And they were very reasonably priced, comparatively speaking ( see here: Link ) and they are not properly listed with the tax assessors office resulting in lower tax bills, that's why." |
What difference does it make to these peoples property values? Now he is not only an unlicensed designer but also a real estate appraiser?
I would not rule out the possibility of anyone cheating on an appraisal but I don't know what that has to do with the designer.
Your accusation are just bizarre I am not sure you are sane. |
Maybe you could explain why and how the Village Officials homes are not properly listed, why they got some great deals and how the assessor gets the information. I know how, I spoke with the assessor, you apparently don't.
| csintexas wrote: | | I don't think so, because in other places he stated that the designer worked for the builder so I don't think they are the same person. |
You think wrong. So it's not possible for this guy to do unlicensed work for another builder and have his own business? Did you even look at the website? Did you see the DBA document? The purchase of a house in the unlicensed guys name and then sold in the builders name? Look at the links below. There is something wrong with your logic, it ain't working right at all.
link
link
| csintexas wrote: | You must be seeing things that I don't.
I see a picture of a sheetrock wall with a hole cut in it showing the edge of two studs and some insulation with a drawing of more studs and some labeling overlaid on top of it.
In the area of question I see a number one within a white octagonal background. I see some nail holes where he located two more studs
I see a dotted rectangle labeled as ledger board that doesn't seem to match the photograph of the supposed other side.
As far as I know this ledger board did not come loose. It has four lag screws going into two studs and an additional 5 lag bolts going into whatever. I don't think an elephant could pry that board loose. I would be more concerned that no joist hangers where used.
As far as I can tell the stairs on the neighbors house fell. The attachment of the stairs to the deck looked to be poor (just toe nailed) and probably the footing on the bottom side was poorly done. |
That's exactly why they have laws requiring licensed architects, all the joist hangers in the world will do you no good if they are attached to a ledger board that is only attached to OSB sheathing. If you can't figure out the situation now you may need to get out of the designing business.
| csintexas wrote: | | Still trying to figure out what this has to do with the designer (or is that tax assessor?) |
Judging from your posts so far I'd advise you quit trying to figure it out, I don't think you'll ever get it.
| csintexas wrote: | | Honestly phansford if this is the sort of thing you would provide as evidence you need to get out of the business |
You need to get over your jealousy of architects, how old are you?
| csintexas wrote: | | As far as I could tell, the ordinance that required an architect was enacted only a few years ago. |
1982 is more than a few years ago, regardless, the particular homes in question require an architect by state law.
| csintexas wrote: | | It is not uncommon that when such laws are passed it only applies to new people wanting to get into the business anyone who had a history of being in practice before is normally grandfathered in. I see no proof that this person does not have an exemption. I don't know what other laws may apply to people in that industry in that state. |
There is no such municipal exemption.
| csintexas wrote: | | I have seen absolutely zero evidence that he is actually calling himself an architect (other than listing himself on the permits in a spot where the wording leaves no other choice) |
Since only architects can design homes in Lombard his name should not be seen on that line, unless he gets an Illinois architects license. Why do you suppose they put architect on that line? Why not designer? Why not both? I'll tell you why, because it's their law, if there is no architect you leave it blank. I have already told you that he told me he was an architect, the letter from the Village to the homeowners refers to him as an architect and the link to the pdf file he his referred to as an architect, that was a commercial project that only a licensed architect can do, he should not have even been there as a designer or architect, much less talk about the project as an architect.
Here is part of an article that was in the Chicago Sun-Times.
"WEDNESDAY, APRIL 11, 2007
CHICAGO SUN-TIMES
A 30-foot floor-to-ceiling glass wall framed attendees. Cary-based architect Paul Grimes of Michelson and Grimes designed the 20,000-square-foot structure, a stunning vision of slate floors, tiles and textured finishes, interpreted by Kelcon Builders of Westmont."
Who do you suppose told the newspaper the Paul Grimes was the architect? Why not the name of the guy that sealed the plans? It seems like a lot of people are calling this guy an architect, he's not, I wonder where on earth they could have gotten the idea he was. This was another commercial project, there is no such thing as Michelson and Grimes, it's a made up name for the permit to cover the guy doing the plan stamping on the project. I have spoken with the builder, he knew Paul Grimes to be the architect on the project, he never met anyone other than Paul Grimes and all the revisions were done by Paul Grimes and were not sealed by an Illinois licensed architect.
| csintexas wrote: | | I certainly do not see any correlation between this builder doing a poor job on a few decks and this designer. |
Of course you don't, you don't want to see it. I would consider you legally blind on this situation.
| csintexas wrote: | | On your website you go as far as to suggest that anyone who has a house designed by this guy should be concerned, which is absolutely ridiculous. I think that sort of fear mongering is irresponsible. |
That's correct, they should be concerned, their home was built by a person that is not qualified to build a home in the Village, in violation of the law. There was collapse on one of his projects and apparently the Village is more than willing to pass inspection on work done by him whether it meets code or not. They should be very concerned, not just about the designer/builder, but about the Village that would allow it and an incompetent building department that would pass inspection on work that isn't code compliant. If I owned a house designed by him I'd be very concerned. The homeowners I talked to were very concerned, are you suggesting they shouldn't be?
| csintexas wrote: | | Why does the front page of your site show a drafting machine Mark? What is your real agenda? |
It doesn't, you're looking at a different site, the link I posted is www.eyeonlombard.com, what you are seeing is on the server where this page is hosted. There is a picture of a dancing guy on one page, does that mean the website is about dancing?
My agenda is quite clear, it's posted on the first page.
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phansford
Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 829
Location: SW Ohio
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| Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 6:07 am Post subject: |
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| csintexas wrote: |
Honestly phansford if this is the sort of thing you would provide as evidence you need to get out of the business |
Chris - That's nice... particularly since I have been supportive of you in the past. I appreciate the courtesy you have afforded me.
I am editing this down from a lengthy response. It's not worth my time. I am secure in my knowledge and status in the profession. Unfortunately the architectural profession is preyed upon at the edges by people who are not fully qualified or knowledgeable. Perhaps this is why the residential code is so prescriptive. Wood construction has a safety factor of 7 because of the lower level of skill required to work in residential construction. So be it.
Its interesting that public health, safety and welfare is the least of the concerns coming from the residential designers posting in this thread. It speaks volumes. |
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djswan
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Joined: 17 Aug 2007
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Location: Montana, USA
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| Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 9:21 am Post subject: |
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By Jove I've got it! It was Professor Plumb with the lagbolt on the porch! Thanks Marky Mark for cueing me in. It was the sense I got from the suspected idiot owners, thus confirming my suspision that this crime was committed by idiots. I would make an excellent juror, I can smell guilt. LOL
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djswan
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Joined: 17 Aug 2007
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| Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 9:34 am Post subject: Re: Unlicensed architect, DuPage County Illinois |
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Bwaaahhahahahahahahaha! I'm really enjoying it. Bwaaaahahahahah. Lagbolt land. I love the pic of the manicured hand holding the cheap torpedo level. it' so galvanizing! dun da dunt.
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csintexas
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Joined: 06 Feb 2006
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| Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 10:19 am Post subject: |
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Well I was talking about the evidence documentation business and NOT the architecture business.
This is very plainly poor documentation. Mark you are great at showing pictures of lag bolts and then asking us to believe you when you tell us what they are bolted onto with no proof.
When people ask me if I am an architect a proudly tell them no because other than phansford and a very few others all the architects I have dealt with online are morons that I wouldn't trust to design a dog house. Some may have zero actual experience with residential construction. A lot of them think they know more than they actually do. But I can't control what they say out of my hearing range.
Your facts are so poorly laid out that I can't tell who is who. Is Grimes a real person or a company name? Who is this Prignano guy? You say he doesn't have the right to design but I see no proof. All I see is that the city has allowed him to operate and your only explanation is "corruption" even though there is a registered architect on staff overseeing these matters.
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Last edited by csintexas on Mon May 11, 2009 10:34 am; edited 1 time in total |
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csintexas
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Joined: 06 Feb 2006
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| Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 10:33 am Post subject: |
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I am 100% in favor of improving the building construction industry and public safety in general.
What I have not seen is a link between the person (whoever that may be) who drew this house plan and failure to build this porch correctly.
Even if the builder is the designer it still only shows his incompetence as a builder since by law an architect is not required to inspect the job site unless he specifically makes it a part of his or her contract.
Is this not true?
That kind of porch detail was most likely not required by the city to be a part of the CD's.
Is this not true?
If the architect neither details that element or goes out and checks that it was properly done how is that different than what was done here?
In either case the same outcome could have occurred.
You think having an architect as the designer is just going to make good karma somehow and everything will be sunshine and lolly pops?
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csintexas
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| Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 10:48 am Post subject: |
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As I said before
-If we want to enact laws which require inspections other than by the city we can do that.
I would suggest we would be best served by requiring a registered structural engineer to certify the worthiness of a structure. I would further suggest that these engineers should specialize in residential construction.
Do either of you two feel that an architect is more qualified to inspect a structure than a structural engineer?
Perhaps we should require frame carpenters to be certified. If you where going to have brain surgery you would want the person who is actually performing the operation to be qualified and not somebody who might or might not come by later to check the work.
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csintexas
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| Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 11:43 am Post subject: |
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Furthermore I would guess that if you where to send out a questionair to every one who has had a house designed for them:
Who was the architect that designed your house?
That the vast majority would list the designers name regardless of his or her certification or whether or not they ever advertised themselves as an architect because many people still use the term generically.
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csintexas
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Joined: 06 Feb 2006
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| Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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I told you your drawings are stupid because they are stupid not because you are an architect or not
"another sign of architect envy (and I'm not even an architect)"
you have already stated you are not an architect so this statement makes no sense.
So let me get this straight you are basically an average Joe with no actual experience in residential construction making accusations that you can't prove?
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Maybe you could explain why and how the Village Officials homes are not properly listed, why they got some great deals and how the assessor gets the information. I know how, I spoke with the assessor, you apparently don't. |
I didn't claim I know why should I? Well do tell-
here is what you said on your own web site:
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Maybe there's a reasonable explanation for the huge price difference, and the discrepancies with the Assessor's office are just clerical errors. I don't really know, but I believe there are some questions that need to be addressed by Hulseberg and the Village of Lombard. |
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csintexas
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Joined: 06 Feb 2006
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| Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | You have no clue if the drawings were sufficient or not |
The fact that the city accepted the drawings proves that they where sufficient. Unless you have direct proof otherwise.
So far you have accused one designer and two architects of illegal activities
(one architect employed by the city allowing just anyone to submit plans as an architect and another stamping large commercial properties that where not under his direct supervision)
and yet you want us to believe architects are more responsible?
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