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erjavi
Joined: 10 Jan 2009
Posts: 229
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 Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 2:29 pm Post subject: Relax |
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Hello Djswan! Well, I proposed a big challenge, and USA people are first to answer directly “we are here!”, despite many institutions, companies and particulars of 20 countries are participating through advertising in aspects related with this precise discussion, in other way a very valuable contribution too for get together a global satisfactory answer. Congratulations! We all see in the beach.
In a previous reply I commented something about six workers which died in “stupid accidents”. I want be more precise for avoid involuntary misunderstandings. What I wanted show was the contrast between an innovative and dangerous too building work operation and a routine one. I was shocked when I heard six persons died for do everyday work, somebody then answered me they died for not be prepared and things like that, but this person did not knew the precise circumstances of the accidents. What is worst is than this standardised answer is due to daily news respect construction worker mortality in Spain, mainly for do the things quickly.
Some years ago I was working for a supplier company in the enlargement of museum of contemporary art Reina Sofía, in Madrid, it was my first day, and the job was not related directly with building work. There was many job inspectors. During job I went to entrance in other big interior room, when I saw a piece of wood in the floor serving like a bridge. When I passed, it looked instable. So I moved it softly with the foot for be sure knowing at same time it was not a good idea, you know when you have other things in mind and you are in a hurry not always you stop on time.
Then suddenly the wood piece fallen like a 2 X 1 meters guillotine over two operators 4 meters down. In a moment the size of the piece did not let me saw the consequences of the impact and my necessity of know the safety of the piece respect the place, my imprudence, my hurry, my nervous, etc, passed for my mind. The two men did not saw the piece, and the guillotine crashed at 20 cm of them without consequences. One of the man simply followed walking and the other look at me and smiled, he had around 35-40 years old, both men understood perfectly what happened, they were not unconscious. So in 10 seconds he arrived to me and asked: can I help you? And I explained him the situation, and after I talked with inspectors for look other solution, they did not perceived this detail on time although they was very busy working on ground.
How many people is so near of death and reaction in this way? Have they seen many things or heard about many similar situations? I do not know.
Once I heard than intellectuals drinks and country bumpkin eats, referring than vineyards world is related with elegance, luxury, design, etc. Many people do not know than one of the first car built in Spain – probably the first - was made inside a wine cellar in Jerez de la Frontera (Cádiz), but there are not factories there...but it is true too that in Spain now vineyards are one of the few agricultural sector which loves earth. Why? I heard than when Hollywood arrived Almería for produce films the economic mental framework of people of El Ejido area bursted. When they leaves because naturals asked for more and more money they brought from Israel the dripping system.
And the Ford philosophy launched so strongly than in the “dessert” (never has been a dessert, read http://rua.ua.es/dspace/handle/10045/7636 ) they produced for west European malls three times per year due the geographical proximity, infrastructures and weather, so the Fordian revolution in this sector is located here. If they do not produce a fourth is for avoid competence with Groningen area (Netherlands). So the objectives for the rest of Spaniards farmers changed, passing after to buildings, and employing water in projects usually designed to waste water. So the artists vineyards loves earth and stop innovations compared with innovative farmers that forgot land.
Other agricultural sectors are trying to find a middle point between productivity and soil restoration, and indirectly wildlife corridors to thanks to camouflage conditions, http://www.todolivo.es/ , but believe when I say to you plastic design is in Stone age, like agriculture, like many activities, trying to simplify what is complex for get a minimal non sustainable productivity. Begin design intelligent plastics, begin ecodesign architextiles, forget close the soil and countryside in them, let maritime air flows pass and get humidity, use solar and wind precision machines, fix or moving (http://www.strandbeest.com/ ) freely work, promote soil growth at different heights and create microclimate, mix it with hydroponic techniques (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inle_Lake), believe there are so many techniques not meltingpoted for get massive natural production or accelerate forestry process working together with soil micro organism than only standardised routines, a millenary tradition worldwide, can justified stop its promotion. So the debate between artists and innovative producer is on the air, for everybody, worldwide.
Talking about Djswan last comment about Gehry, we enter in world metal-mental standardised routines. I like his Guggenheim museum at Bilbao. Like the Sidney´s Opera, is located in an photographically strategic point, although I heard a skyscraper and other buildings are going to be made near. Calatrava, Hadid, Foster and other are working in the city and her ría (ría means fjord, río means river). If you see books of industrial archaeology of the area you can perceive the previous landscape to industrialisation, modified previously too for forestry management.
When I was child I pass a part of summer holidays near Bilbao, I remember once I saw Mary Poppins and the urban landscape of London night chimneys was very similar there. With the years the area did not left industry but changed pollutions criteria and developed services, and Guggenheim museum really launched the city in terms of image. Now others architects like mentioned are working in the same direction. Even a superport has been constructed following the tradition of the city of be a commodities hub. But the city and the suburbia are each time more far from nature (ría natural flows and hinterland coastal nature).
When the Guggenheim museum was built a commemorative big flower dog was prepared for the event at the entrance, but people desired keep it after. There is a joke between Basques provinces, you know neighbours, like worldwide. A visitor from Donosti (Guipúzcoa) arrives to the city and a friend shows him the dog, and claims: “what dog!” And the friend answers: “wait to see the kennel!”
I love metals, stones, and there are many possibilities to explore genetics considering and AND structure in terms of complex dynamic fractal design, all the knowledge is fantastic, but the debate between artists and innovative producer is open here too. If not, be sure the standardised topic of conversation of the party will continue being: “why the dog do not want enter into the kennel?”
Following historians agriculture expanded worldwide from precise areas, industrialisation too, looking good practices maybe for first time in history the initiative is multi focus and the old perspective of Silk Road became little.
Internet can be too a public secret worldwide big silent meeting place too, soft society information, if not look at this forum, I prefer be politically opportune to be politically correct. But I shared all I consider relevant for me like landscaper apprentice. Curiously, I employed three months for develop first part of Llley Project, three months for develop second and 9 days for the city itself, the third. That´s why I was looking a forum for develop the urban part with other people, downsizing all I had in mind. This forum showed –initially only by views – than people was interested, so I continued.
HellouEire!, my gaelenglish is not so good, please do not be molest if a try to open Ford´s colour perspectives, when I visited the wonderful Eire I found the county more green than black. Did you know once I tried to construct a scale model of the Irish Rover and people told me no one wrote the master plan of a Galway Hooker? Only old sailors have the plans in mind.
Thanks some brief mails with people of MIT SENSEable laboratory, http://senseable.mit.edu/ I thought in develop the economical eco-equation applied to world situation.
Now I´m tired, I only got forget this subject five days but my mind followed working. Mix my self formation of my second career during near two years with my work of waiter of catering has been extremely pleasant, intense, but hard too. Now I leave internet and mails for some weeks for relax. Anyway I feel I can advance more from now précising experiences on ground, after more or less see a preliminary theoretical framework.
Sorry if I mentioned many times Ronda or Spain, I learnt here, but the idea is the same. In Spain antipodes, New Zealand, I began wrote in this way: “I have a german friend which told me she practiced Sky in New Zealand Alps and, just after descend, she found a tropical beach. She told me it was the biggest nature contrast she never saw, how really works soil micro organisms? Do you sky with climate change tsunamis?”
If you do not want hear talk more about climate change then forget it, who knows may be you are right. But respect world urban dryer model, the necessity of eco design consume products and the political opportune aspects, try not forget because the results can be even worst in short and medium period.
See you in the beach, it´s very nice now, there are something like artificial fires.
Erjavi
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erjavi
Joined: 10 Jan 2009
Posts: 229
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| Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 10:26 am Post subject: Proceedings in non-standardised forum |
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¡Hello USAers, how goes Montana Dream Team? Hey!, I was wrong, people of 50 countries talking through publicity here! Yiiiiiiihaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!
Yeah, Djswan, I ´m on the beach now, in Laredo (Cantabria), nice place. But today is raining.
I mistoke using in the last reply the Shakespeare´s novel Il moro di Venezia, I tought Shakepeare was talking about a Turkish resident in Venice, and I was wrong by this and other connotations relatred with the book, I´m sorry everybody. Respect Turkey I found interesting the initiative of Archild in Ankara next november, http://www.archildworld.org/index.php?page=general-information&hl=en_US In Spain children had practically disappeared in many cities till inmigration arrived (we grow aprox. In 10-15 years from 40 million people to 50, between legal and illegal inmigration), although I read the lowest bitrh rate was between white US people, not only WASP, around 0´7%. One of the consequences of richness is lost perspective and other people remember you, life always continue (sorry for be sometimes so Wexcentric).
Talking now about the discover of America, it had unexpected real estate consequences, many years ago I saw that arriving to the Plaza del Zócalo in México D.F., there is a street with a bar named “El huevo de Colón” and opposite there is other called “El otro”.
A los españoles nos sobró bemoles ó lo otro para conquistar el Nuevo Mundo pero nos faltó valor para descubrirlo, so this cromagnonian way of life goes against oneself and the others.
I forgot tell you something about Venice. You know, the Spaniards now we have good fame in Italy but in the past was different, so I want be perceived like discover, not conqueror. That´s way I rescued an old mediterranean tradition of relationship for knock the waterdoor of the city, the Ordinamenti Maris, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trani , and too the Consolat del Mar, in spanish. http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consulado_del_Mar. Because now is only folklore, can be adapted to this non-standardised forum with the best of all us, is politically correct.
In Ronda, Venezia or everywhere I really have not intention of talk about the city, village or suburbia without their inhabitants. Ronda is Spain, that´s true, but for deeps human encounters in Venice I want ask before, I remember the four hours I was in the city 20 years ago and I want the experience now will be even better.
The problem of the soft information society, like this forum, is than is not easy interpret messages, I tried contact with two national tourist offices and a worldwide organization announced here, and no answer, so Djswan, conventional publicity do nor means “enter”, means “we are hearing”.
Then, Ordinamenti Maris, Venetians?.
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erjavi
Joined: 10 Jan 2009
Posts: 229
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| Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 1:59 pm Post subject: a wonderful architectonical future |
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Hello everybody!!!
I´d like comment some brief ideas looking the publicity in the web today.
May be I didn´t explained well some ideas, you know english lenguage is not easy for me, even some comments I read sometimes I don´t understand well.
Imagine a fix-mental management nature tradition, and now include a dynamic one, that´s what I did mainly in this forum applying overall to urban context. In western tradition it means enrich Leucipus-Democritus nature vision (mostly fix) with Heraclitus and Parmenides (mostly dynamic), than traditionally Occident has left in a secondary place following neolithic worldwide urban dryer model. This second aspect of Greek philosophers nature vision is more related with Chinese, Indiaa and others nature vision, although the mainstream is the worldwide urban dryer model.
So till now we have three routines towards nature management. And I wrote about mix them, together with other human subjects, after my experience in Ronda asking people and operate the three traditions.
When I talked with Djswan about singularities I was only talking about the weakness of present standard model, you know the exception always remember you than the nature rules we deal are just a modus operandi, the scientific method is just a modus operandi, showing indirectly the constant search of knowledge by humanity.
I fourth tradition is complexity, only partially logic but not irrational, with examples in architecture, surrealist painters, etc, independent of the previous. When I talked about Venice I was proposing deal with the four traditions together in architecture. Sure there are more traditions in architecture.
Independent of this, coexisting but of other nature, is extreme landscaping (see the end part of attached file on Feb 11th, so I wrote it separated because although traditionally architects have expressed clearly their world vision I prefered do it appart for develop the answer to Ronchamp question.
Mixing the three routines I estimate with present technologies the world can proportion food for 75000-100000 million persons, participation together with responsibility (I don´t talk of plastic cultives, in Germany are known like water products, they have few flavour, independently than they pass strict controls in UE). Without responsible participation, now with 7000 we live a constant drama, without solidarity. In the abandoned village of Linarejos (Jaén) one of the inhabitants told me than in Spanish postwar thera was a huge drought in the 40´s or 50´s, I don´r remember now. HE told me month by month the effects: hunger, after children starving to death, and after the rains. In Linarejos a neighbour had 1000 sheeps and goats, people contracted just for bring water from a near river, other neighbours with little reserves, etc. In front, Puente Génave and others big populations with resources, where children were dying too. In the 60´s other drought arrived and people simply abandoned quick the village for go work Barcelona and otehr places, no more children death. Nobody acted with violence. The richman finished bud, drunk or something similar. Even the storyteller talked me about desesperated people killing in hills others just after the war for get blood for transfussion, I don´t remember the illness now, I supposed like the example of the probably desesperated woman found with a stake in the mouth in Venice recently, vamps histories are consequence of the work of a good fiction writer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dracula . So many histories you thought like medieval are unfortunately the result of desesperate people which don´t want look for good solutions.
That´s why I insisted in good practices. Solution are always exponentially bigger than problems, always there are somebody that has solved your problem, and what is better, with more fantastic results we imagined. I accepted this when I wrote the guide of older volunteers, I began for the hopeless old people precisely because the standard mind says you they are useless, and then they gave me the key for look other initiatives. And arrived a moment than accept my limitations were normal, always there was somebody lost for me than helped me open the way. And with this mentality I arrived to Ronda, and began ask everybody, and between them thera was many time few communications, so I got tendencies.
So when I see logos like http://www.farmingfirst.org/ I know they, like the standard mind model from Neolithic, tends to se only one part of nature management, like people cultivating up of the wrong line in Australia http://press.nationalgeographic.com/pressroom/index.jsp?pageID=pressReleases_detail&siteID=1&cid=1237300206958
Farming isolating-management just only reduce each time more the line of land fertility, so is hand made, like the rest of industrial, architectonical, etc, panorama, and reversible. So the tensions will be each time more bigger like useless if they are not a comprenhensive vision, independently if solutions have been always there. If you are managing a string over your neck, just open your hand, slowly or quickly, like you want, at your rithm. Between november – december 2008 I sent a introduction of Llley Project to aprox. 3000 persons, companies or instituions worldwide. Some of them immediately downloaded it, sometimes some departments of the company followed, precisely because the project in interdisciplinary. Why some did and why others didn´t with the same introduction, this is a good question. When I enter in this forum the launching of the new idea was rolling: architects, engineers, biologists, farmers, authorities, researchers, non qualified people in these degrees, etc.
A hypothetic consequence of world urban dryer model, really the neolithic nature management, is a galciation, an in this case the problem is not what is going to happen but than we don´t know what is happening. But the consequences of the urban model are many, may be glaciation never arrives.
I sincerely think than managing infrastructures, houses, agriculture, wildlife corridors and others focising in a soft but continued looking and implementing of good practices, in five years aprox. the biggest part of climate change has been solved before arrived, a wonderful experience for us and a magnificent present for our descendents. Llley Project is only a collage of good practicesn from an ignorant man than ask about good pracices to everybody, I´m actively waiting to see millions of better jobs than mine for learn more and overall enjoy. In fact when I commented I was looking for interdisciplary groups I didn´t expressed maybe well, what I wanted said is that I was looking for groups working in a precise place, for learn to combine better all the tendencies I exposed and new ones, for put the turbo quietly, and continue sharing experiences with everybody. It´s true than in participative democracy is where you advance comfortably and faster, and I´m an intelligent man, I want the best for me and the rest of people, so Ilook for the better atmospheres. With respet to everybody. I´m not worry if I am wrong, it´s part of human being, the interesting is learn from it daily.
Is true I was not too much politically correct but excuse me, this is an informal forum where I felt more free for talk, and when I wanted talk about something more personal you know I put in an attached file.
That´s why I don´t understand some publicity in the web, it looks they participate without see what appears in the Project, it looks a monotony, standardised reaction. Look the New Zealand experiences about fishing and reserve marines, and others, and extrapolate data, and do the same with architectural world. If not, talking clearly, the landscape horizon will be each time poorest and dryer, and the effect on quality of life and consume products will be each time worst. And if a galciation arrives and people reaction well, wonderful, an historical succes to celebrate (if you want see maps in the Project about manage a galciation in Europe, together with the dessert procees in Spain and how inverse it, and an initial possibiloities of landscape between Ronda and Guadalquivir river), if not, some people can die. And in the extreme case of colective insolidarity histeria of people running everywhere, in maybe 15 years or soemthing more till 6500 millions people could dead in two months, don´t think in armies think in a multimillionaire pull of effects associated with industrial gases and liquids meted with nonstandard metereological and tectonic movements, although humanity will continue. Don´t worry, I have no more surprises, I said all. So if you accept all possibilities, from the better to the worst, then you forget the problems, focuse your activity in solutions and begin enjoy from now with an incredible, wonderful panorama, that´s what I wanted share too in this forum. Don´t give importance if I am critic sometimes with some particular, institution, company, soon or later I´ll mention them for opposite because I me permito be more exigent with people I consider more ready for produce collective well being.
I´m now enjoying, I hope you too. Constantly I have new ideas about big scale sustainable landscaping, I ´m seeing during my holidays many things, but put the turbo is more interesting if one don´t travel alone.
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erjavi
Joined: 10 Jan 2009
Posts: 229
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| Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 6:33 am Post subject: Is your turn? |
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Hi Solidred, how are you? Like you see, I´m trying each time more write brief mails, step by step. Join us!
Djswan, Venetians are each time loooking more, http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/www.architectureweek.com , but they don´t decide still, like rondeñ@a. Maybe you could talk with the guilders and introduce yourselves, surely they´ll perceive you like discovers instead of conquerors, after all Montana has the world´s longer non defended border with Canada, near 1000 kms, and you are more politically correct than me, if necessary, I´ll talk with you in attached file while you eat pasta and gelatto a mi salud.
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rsiii
Joined: 29 Apr 2009
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:29 am Post subject: |
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a classic on the topic, The Idea of Building from Steven Groak
and a newer book dealing with the potential for architecture to become both a commodity and art (i.e. a product) Refabricating Architecture by Stephen Kieran and james Timberlake
rsiii
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erjavi
Joined: 10 Jan 2009
Posts: 229
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| Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 5:37 am Post subject: architecture, commodity and craft, a family matter |
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Hello Rsiii!
The books than you comments sounds very interesting, but before 10 days I don´t come back to Madrid for see them, I´l go now to Bilbao and maybe I get time to find them.
Talking about arhitecture books, it is said than now in spanish architectural libraries and publishers are between the betters of the world, in coincidence with the boom of creativity of the last 20 years.It is true than city planning is a disaster, but many singular buildings have been built or transformed with many innovations. The maintenance of historical buildings and the activity of regional and local authorities promoting patrimony is the other face of the coin. SO good at local level, so bad at global.
In a traditional internal isolated country for orography, the massive launching of infrastructures has promoted massive standardised suburbia architecture. Note than from the last 40 years Spain has around the 10th world industrial sector, the difference was than with Franco internal or external public debt was forbiden because the dictator knew this could be a weak point for the regime (quintacolumnismo económico), so the effort was made with many sacrifices.
Once I heard the netherlands lived from their grandfathers work, they only must just maintain the country´s machinery. In Munich, talking with young people, I perceived they kenw perfectly they had to maintain their father´s work /the Germany´s miracle). We lived form our oncles, but one must be on holidays because the debt rise in 30 years to an amount not justified with the extent of welfare state (it existed before) and the size of infrastructures.
So the answer is not in the industry, and is not too in the massive migration in the50´s and 60´s to cities (that transformed a significative percentage of rented people into ownerships). The answer is in services. Usually in hard polically transition periods an important part of population tends to to go from an extreme to another before equilibrate perspectives, the initial impulse became lazy and in some aspects 30 years are lost, so if an oncle go on holidays the nephews are some alternatives, go on holidays too or imitate fathers and oncle than wereon holidays with more prudence.
The hipercentralism of Franco era tryed eliminate historical multinational culture spanish richness mixed una y otra vez through history. So the Comunidades Autónomas (regions) developed a significative paper in services together with State. But services are mainly urban following the standard model, because? They are usually related with industry, than mainly has been urban (now is dispersed through the country).
So the Cinderella than lost most of the family´s heritage was the town halls, pressed till today, because the situation has not changed, by State and Comunidades Autónomas, salvando mucho las distancias you can see the same problem in many ex-colonials countries, in which the new democratic situation is in some aspects worst than with opresors (lo digo en español para evitar malentendidos, de ninguna forma apoyo una dictadura). And which consequences had this with architecture?
A strong industry, a good weather, weak services, half developed welfare state, naivety after a dictatorship, many hopes, many wills to express, a strong motor industry, many infrastructures to develop, the massive tourism announcing with his presence than Spain have forgot many own things before the Civil War, a peaceful atmosphere, an incredible feeling at international and historical level of desire of mutual forgiveness, prepared people (now many skills are loosing quickly because the “holidays syndrome” is still on the air), and a distorsioned political institutions and correct distribution of service urban-services divided the country-s family heritage.
So you can see all the fortune dispersed now, massive architecture, very hard investments in infrastructures, maintenance and promotion of historical buildings, searching of quick and easy family´s fortunes for continue holidays in same cases, dessertification process for an awful water and nature´s management, collective political daily level decreased so so so much respect Transición times (the spanish political parties at all levels have many difficulties for internal democratic process, and stop manage some part of oncle´s heritage...).
The integration in UE, re-launching relationships with other branchs of the families initiated by tourism, has benefited all in general terms because mutual understanding is always fundamental. The architecture consequence has been seen mainly in the coasts, developing in good and bad sense the previous situation.
After 5 centuries of WLC (White Latin Catholic) isolation was necessary re-launching relationships with the rest of family branches. Of course fortunately we never were pure. In 1492 mostly arabs-descendents and jews were expelled, in 1609-1614 mostly Berbers descendents were expelled, but the Pragmática Sanción of 1499 against gipseys never was executed, probably because they never wanted the power in the recovery of the land, and today they are more than one million. Before Colón went see the Indians the Indians were here. Our landcape and nature´s management has been extraordinarily conditioned for increase the territory, so is centrifuge, so it means than spanish architecture tends to be stressed because never stands at all on territory, is a dreamer architecture yes, but has nightmare often. Just an example, most Swiss understand and deals with german, french and italian. Still I don´t know any spanish who talks castilian, catalonian, basque, galician and why nor bable (Asturias), of course must be some philologist, what is more I only knew one person born in Madrid with four generations of madrileños ascendents (grand grandfathers).
In this context people from Old World (Creciente Fértil descendents) I mean Moroccans and others, joined massively here with people of New World (Occident), migrated (Latin Americans) or no migrated (East Europeans workers with more West Europeans retired and tourists), so the real state boom of standardised architecture of the last 10-15 years tomó el relevo of European investments (public and private) enlarging the family´s fortune, independently of the different management than realise than execute the big family spanish members.
So you can find many contrasts in a country in general enriched (in many aspects was enriched before the Civil War, don´t forget spanish history, including the economical and industrial) quick. It is said than buildings of Gran Vía in Madrid (aprox. 1900) was made from capitals of people than, after enrich with industry, stopped win money and changed from commodity to craft, the heritage of El Dorado is here heavy. In 1970 were near of El Barco de Avila (Avila) people no-gipsey showing wolfs with muzzle and receiving spam because currency was inexistent, like in many montanous areas like i.e. Huesca, barter was very expanded. Please, hearing this try don´t look yourself like a sophisticated person, in heavy crisis time all the financial advances of economy obtained in economy research falls quickly to Stone Age, I mean rocks, I mean gold patron, other barter, and in a heavy climate change context, which is more sure, offshores “virtual” savings like those offered by the probably first global bank (HSBC), housing bank near home spanish tradition, the Grand Bazaar of Istambul or the rockmoney under the bed? And what consequences could happen in quick, non sustainable architecture?. Or tthe better solution consist in invest in your responsibility of local and global family´s heritage, for transmit it to our descents? For those than know follows the followings path proposed in Llley project in the case and net study, and the implications in neighbours areas together with the concursos de ideas at European at intercontinental level (the manage of Rift and Atlas is so critical like in the Spanish past) the concept of crisis or boom and their implications with architecture and infrastructures has other family implications.
Nice question that launched by Rsiii. And the winners are...
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djswan
millennium club
Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Posts: 1119
Location: Montana, USA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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Hey, how's it going? I got a far as "Mary Poppins" and then scrolled down. I've been busy and not on a beach. I remember reading something about a "dream team". If you could elaborate just a bit on that subject, it would help. thanks
Derek
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erjavi
Joined: 10 Jan 2009
Posts: 229
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| Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 7:04 am Post subject: MVP (Multitudinary Vip Persons) |
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Djswan, machote, dont´worry, like you said you´re so busy and I´m on holidays.
How far goes human curiosity? In the big town council of Ortigueira (A Coruña), there are two parts well different. First is the coastal area, there some people in 1900 migrated to Cuba, worked, and even developed an embrionary and quite modern welfare state between them.
The second is the mountanous area, where some people lived isolated from the rest of the world. Somebody told me than some young man saw the sea for first time in his lifes when they were forced to do military service, in 1970 (tallarse para la mili).
What is incredible for me, butI respet it, are the limits of human curiosity. I knew people living at 50 km of the sea than hey never wanted go to see it, and even people living in thecenter of Mallorca island than did the same. But in Ortigueira, these montanous men and women knew than in His/Her village there was a mass of immense water than never ended called sea, nobody avoid them makea simple walk of 2, 3 or 5 km without leave the mountains, look at the horizon, an see a silver reflect showing the sea. “-5 kms, I recognize never I thought than human curiosity was so geographically reduced!, but I respet it.
So when the coastal neighbours came back after the years to their home, they built a palace for show the rest they triumphed, people called them Indianos, you know, they had the expensive cars, used luxurious mocassins, and they tried change life´s population. But they didn´t got it, they were still the son of...so they were not valuable persons for promote any change. They accepted the situation without force nobody, but they left a social architectonical present: schools and healthcare buildings, over all in the montanous areas, they found their neighbours were gold comparing with the silver reflect of the sea, Oro y plata, Oro y plata, could be a seal for the town council.
Mary Poppins is just a phantasy movie, in the other hand nice children´s dreams, but London´s smog was originated by industrial pollution, now the cloud is expanded. Recently researches said maybe the loss of ice in Artic answer to this pollution, and the ozone layer is due to CFC and the effect is opposite, the ice sheet is growing in Antarctica. Sounds polarised, like a battery than is recharging of...tension. But if look for new equilibriums suddenly, believe it´is going to be useless do like the men recluited by force in Ortigueira, because ice don´t fight just freeze.
Dream Team? Are the best players, those than win the NBA (Nature Be Available), I think in Montana is located part of the West Conference.
I forgot include in last reply people from Philippines, the rest of Africa, and worldwide, now Spain, particularly Madrid, are becoming more and more a melting polt after many centuries of self-forced isolation. It is interesting than the city acts geographically like a compass, I mean subsaharian people lives in south togther with Moroccans, East European lives in the East, etc, everybody is thinking, like Ortigueira migrants, came back home and proportion their descendents a better future.
Talking about compass, I´d like call the attention of biologists looking this forum about a natural mistery in Ronda than intrigues me. Officially a million birds cross through Malaga province during migration, bird more, bird less. But the observation is diurnal, so the Swiss Ornitological Society arrived Ronda and tryed count directing a focus against the Moon for recognise thye siluets, like aliens (in spanish sounds better, ET es esto, ET es lo otro), but you know, the encounter must pass to other kind, the results were not satisfactory. And if these birds continue migrating only during nights for avoid simoultaneous diurnal bird of prey migration, how are of them are between us?
And why the protection of electrical towers are not massively installed in Ronda like in Doñana?, and why eolic camps in Tarifa, Casares and the coming of Antequera - Guadalteba area are not designed for be interrumped during migrations? Note than Antequera has the world´s biggest proportion of bird accidents respect eolic towers.
USAers don´t must face to this problem with some birds like the Ectopistes Migratorius than fall from 2000000000 specimens to 0 in 100 years, may be the biggest extintion in modern times, but they can play still with bisons, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Bison and who knows, but without forced situations like the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Wall_of_China (the only stable natural framework for Chinese, Indians and the rest of this part of Asia is the spam taiga, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiga , and in other areas of the world too, so for play in first division of NBA it´s necessary Dream, in Team, and who knows, may be in Montana Seal appear too a new MVP, País de Cíbola, but this time in english.
Is everybody ready?
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djswan
millennium club
Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Posts: 1119
Location: Montana, USA
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| Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 7:49 am Post subject: |
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I'm not worried. Big Sky Conference. From Montana to the Front Range of Colorado.
The artic ice is melting. A big battery recharging, I can see it... I would like to see a model. I did note that the folks that study this arrive in ice breakers, go figure. It's easier to ship across the artic now.
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erjavi
Joined: 10 Jan 2009
Posts: 229
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| Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 11:08 am Post subject: immediate ice loss and coastal countries and cities |
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Hi Derek,
I just come back to cibercafé because it sounds to me inappropriate suggest a new legend in Montana Seal, my excuses to you, http://www.tfguild.org/ and the rest of Montana and USA people. It´s difficult for me follow the dialog in english, I can misunderstood some expressions, or the context in which are employed.
But if you have time and want read more about I said respect Venice, could be interesting.
Respect ice, I don´t remember in which map I perceived the main area of loss ice sheet, if in national map of National Geographic or in review published by UE. For me, with present information, the possibility of cross the Artic is a potential bad new. Of course my opinion is subjective, the first time I went to Narvik (Norway, inside the Artic Circle), I took a cable railway for cross the fjord. Then, up there, I heard a vrrrrrrrrrroooouuuuuuuuuuuummmmm, and I felt in some way than nothing could stop a big storm coming from there. I was 20, I had no idea of weather (like now jaja). Afterwards I visited twice Nordkapp, in Norway too, and looking the panorama, I felt the same, I mean I didn´t perceived obstacles. But, which value has an subjective feeling?
I have more ideas about Venice, New York and many cities and countries like Maldives Islands than could be affected by the loss of ice, independently of big changes in clima, think in Venice helped me to it. Soon I´ll write a long attached mail, after holidays.
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djswan
millennium club
Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Posts: 1119
Location: Montana, USA
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| Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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 I'm still with you. The translation is a bit challenging to interpret and filled with lots of information. I like to chop the meat of information up into small bites, safer and easier to digest that way. and thanks for the link to the Guild, we need all the advertising we can get.
We're getting some interesting near extinctions here too. Suddenly someone found a use for horseshoe crabs and takes the use from something else.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/08/070816162204.htm
Yes ships crossing the artic is another bad new. Very subjective feeling of value indeed. I wonder it we left it alone would it refreeze? New beach front developement property in Russia and Canada. If chopping horseshoe crabs out for bait wipes out the poor Red Knots. New ports in the artic ocean is going to...
I agree, respect the ice and horseshoe crabs.
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erjavi
Joined: 10 Jan 2009
Posts: 229
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| Posted: Fri May 01, 2009 10:50 am Post subject: houses in Artic |
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These days I was laughing myself thinking in some secretary translating the “huevo de Colón” history to the staff or the boss, or i.e. a mexican lady working in a home respect the californian ownerships. Mis disculpas, señoritas ó señoras, las compensaré con otro comentario ingenioso en las que serán ustedes las que lo pasen bien.
Spanish history is not universal even when was catholic (catholic means literally “universal”). Those than know our history understood what meant “A los españoles nos sobró bemoles ó lo otro para conquistar el Nuevo Mundo pero nos faltó valor para descubrirlo”, it´s related with the famous sentence refered to the Spanish kings than promoted Colon´s expedition, Fernando de Aragón and Isabel de Castilla, “tanto monta monta tanto Isabel como Fernando”, and I prefer don´t explain this because children can be reading this forum. Again some secretary, assistant lady or some spanish speakers worldwide can think: “Javier, ya nos debes dos”, and you´re totally right jajajaja.
What is not a joke is how many times the societies relations with anothers, the world needs millions and millions of discovers. Popularly the value is, making popular jokes, measured with low passions, I was joking about that too for show, if you let me the organic comparison, than heart is in an higger position. I´ll only can enter in a place to propose measures about big sustainable landscaping if I act myself and with others like discover, in the first division only plays the discovers, the second is full of conquerors promoting to the first.
Is true than I´m one the persons in this world than talks more clearly, independently if people agree or disagree, and people understand what I mean if not see some publicity in this web. Anyway, I can understand than many people can translate bad some historical sentence.
Like I said, in this forum my initial intention was only integrate me in the common brain storming for quietly develop the third part of Llley Project, and the results worlwide has been greater than I expected.
Following my line, and desiring than people in future, if confused, ask before with prudence because I´m not perfect and it helps me (anyway if occurs in future I´ll refer to extreme landscaping), I come back to the subject commented by Djswan about artic ships. Maybe this area refreeze alone in future, specially at the end of the summer and the begin of autumn. My subjective experience in Artic is the wrrroooummm of the storm I heard. What is important is the objective data: today, there´s not any scientific than can expose with some credibility the evolution of ice loss and it´s consequences, and it´s logic because there are not precedents, and there are not still sufficient data, we intuitively refuse study water, air or soil because seems caotics, are scales than we don´t manage usually.
And this is the problem, we don´t know at all what is happening, and this “at all” can means many many different situations. In this point, I recognise I´ll feel personally more comfortable if Artic refreeze and Antarctica stabilise. Other news are for me little alarms. Anyway solutions are exponentially higher than problems, always.
So Djswan, houses and ports in the artic? Very dangerous, sincerely, not impossible, but very dangerous. Other possibility is live there but leave during the transition summer-autumn, or the entire autumn – winter, because even if situation became stable, there are not precedents about how long is going to be stable the situation. And with present urban model more houses and infrastructures meand more hot air in this area, accelerating unexpected climate consequences, not only there but down all the northern area too.
I feel than climate natural moderators (sea, forest, soil, etc) tends to make all stable and transition global chemical movements soft, and without them...?
Respect snowshoe I think many good solutions can be developed by your people, together with others. Because I want be prudent with Venetians (I knew they has a project of submarine dams, what I was not sure if it was a project or not and I didn´t knew in what it consisted) please let me some days for see how present this and other ideas to Venetians and others with respet. I´m making big efforts in this holidays for not think, continuosly I´m looking landscapes so it´s difficult.
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erjavi
Joined: 10 Jan 2009
Posts: 229
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| Posted: Sat May 02, 2009 2:29 am Post subject: paying architectonical language debts |
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I have two debts to pay in this forum about urban processes, and I´m going to do it. I don’t use attached file this time because I got the debts in this part.
The first is dedicated i.e. to Mexican ladies working in homes in Upper California, it can interest to the home´ownerships.
“Estimadas Señoras y Señoritas: hace 19 años pude disfrutar de una estancia en su país, primero estuve en el D.F. varios días y después viajé a otros lugares. En el hotel ofrecían excursiones para ver las pirámides de Teotihuacán, el viaje era en autobús. Me pegué a la ventanilla porque oí al guía decir que íbamos a atravesar barrios de chabolas y quería ver cómo vivía la gente en uno de los lugares más pobres de la Tierra.
Estuve varios minutos mirando cuando atravesábamos la zona y no conseguí ver a nadie, parece increíble pero no ví un alma en un lugar donde vivían millones de personas, no recuerdo qué hora de la mañana era, quizás las 11.
Dos días después, paseando no lejos del distrito financiero, alguien me señaló una estación de metro y me dijo que allí llegaban tres millones de personas cada día. Miré a ver si encontraba a la gente que no pude ver en la excursión, pero sólo ví niños y niños con uniforme de colegio que salían de ella, y seguí caminando. Después recordé algo que oí, que en países que se esfuerzan por salir de las dificultades las familias invierten sus ahorros en los niños, porque saben que son el futuro, y no desean que pasen lo que ellos.
Estuve en uno de los lugares más pobres de la tierra y sólo vi esperanza. Desde entonces sé que si algún día se me ocurre dar esas ciudades por perdidas, soy sólo yo el que está perdido”.
The second is dedicated i.e. to women secretary translating some expressions I used too (but I include señoras de la limpieza, women directors, and other posts in offices and others places).
“Estimadas Señoras y Señoritas: en el documento que adjunto el 11 de febrero, al final de la tercera hoja, se habla de una situación mucho más extrema que cualquiera que haya podido plantear en este fórum, y en ella se describe una situación entre un hombre y una mujer, en el que existe un respeto y admiración mutuas que me gustaría trasladar a cualquier ámbito en el momento presente. Aunque no siempre se puede, en los pueblos, ciudades y suburbios de China e India faltan millones de niñas y mujeres jóvenes a quienes poder trasladar esta intención. Sin la mujer no hay desarrollo. Si la excusa era la falta de medios, les ruego trasladen a quienes corresponda que Malthus siempre estuvo equivocado, no digo que se tengan niños como conejos, sólo digo que Malthus siempre ha estado equivocado”.
Lamento cualquier malentendido o situación incómoda que les haya podido causar las expresiones que he usado. Ustedes saben en qué contexto las he empleado, con buena intención se capta enseguida. Muchas gracias.
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Nakedtyrant
Joined: 03 May 2009
Posts: 1
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| Posted: Sun May 03, 2009 3:46 am Post subject: The norm? |
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(Sorry if this doesn't plug in with where this discussion has led but I wanted to have a go at the original question. Don't have any books on the matter to mention because it was after reading the original question that my curiosity on the subject arose  )
Perhaps buildings exhibiting the widely accepted structural norms are just trying not to stray from their direct context, I know though, its such a drag having buildings just "getting with the program", but someone mentioned having a city filled with Gaudi's structures, wow would that city be god-awful. if architecture was an army, these structures would be the bulk of it, their importance i guess lies in their dialectic relationship with buildings aimed at regenerating areas. As far as the cladding of material goes thats a dilemma thats been plaguing us for a while i think, even green architecture came in with such a boom and now we've got the 'gling' culture; cladding your buildings with enough green crap so it becomes 'energy efficient', very much like cladding yo low rida' wid bling. Either way, i would think that perhaps to both understand and accept a lot of these buildings you would have to bring in the 'innovative' and the 'old' together, as a comparative study and really have a go at understanding what their doing for each other rather than just themselves.
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erjavi
Joined: 10 Jan 2009
Posts: 229
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| Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 4:35 pm Post subject: Countdown: 3 |
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Norms? Norms in architecture? Sound interesting, I`m going to develop this idea in the attached file, it´s a long mail.
Okey, holidays are finishing. Aaaaarrggh! Again. Aaaaaargh jaja. I think something is finishing. The last month I lived in Ronda, I talked with many people there about water and the situation of the building works recycling center in Parauta. Most of them answered yes, it´s worrying, what we can do, etc, but without precise measures. So, tired, I just tried got some water samples, and the day before leave I found a woman than reaction at the moment, you know, a normal, standard answer. In few hours more and more people began to move, and today we know the water, by the moment, is ok. If this woman didn´t reaction others of the group she meted surely did the same. She was the ignition answer. May be the water will be ok always, but sincerely the data I said are worrying, so maybe a further analysis will put the question on the right place. May be with the Artic ice is the same matter. But I have no doubts of the effects of the world urban dryer model, the absence of eco design of consume products, but overall the insolidarity; so after see the standard reaction coming from this woman and other people I leave Ronda city thinking well of humanity. And I found the place nice.
Surfing with attitudes, when I arrived there I knew perfectly I was near the most urban corrupted area of Spain, so I installed my surfboard in the correct place, with one leg there and the other in the rest of the world, because I knew the good practices are always stronger, life always continues. I found in Ronda many people tired by the impotence of general laziness, and the disagreements between them. I leaved the city stronger because just from the first moment I shared in internet the first part of the Llley Project and people outside the city was receiving more good practices too, those related in an project applied to a precise location. When I leave some people thought: one dreamer more. Afterwards I came back to the city two days for tell some people the water was ok, after worrying them. They didn´t took the initiative then but knew others did, so I think they are thinking about it.
I followed surfing and enter in this forum installing my surfboard in the correct place, with one leg here and other outside, of course the reality is bigger than the people is reading this lines now, but till moment, and at a difference of Ronda, I didn´t perceived any normal, standard reaction: no still discovers but…I don´t know the future.
The Dream Is Alive http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4pFXTVIhAQ (first a tribute to soviets http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programa_espacial_sovi%C3%A9tico, ESA and LASOTRAS), the mobile launchpad is made by Demag http://www.demag.com/ and the technology used deals with many points managed together, an application for Venice.
Now it´s time to discover the Earth in other way, and following surfing with one leg in.... Eco Charly planner pilot calling, initiating ignition turbo Countdown.
Countdown: 3
Chutuc.wacawacawacasuuuiiiiiii.Boplop. promp. ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffttfffrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
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