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djswan
Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Posts: 333
Location: Montana, USA
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 Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 6:44 am Post subject: |
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The big wood shots always drop a few jaws. That stick should be a movie star.
Build it now. Float your material over, when it's time for the raising.
_________________
The definition of architect is "Master Builder".
I am a builder and there are no masters.
"I'm not one of those who in expressing opinions confine themselves to facts"
Mark Twain |
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EngRMP
Joined: 05 Mar 2008
Posts: 40
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| Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 7:38 am Post subject: |
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djswan,
As an engineer, I applaud your ability to see and take advantage of resources that others might miss: use time and favorable space to build, and then use buoyancy and time to transport heavy items.
Now, can we train some of your state's buffalo to help with the heavy lifting? Actually mountain goats might be really nice to get those I-beams placed on the steep slopes. Suppose they might like a snack of bamboo?
Sorry everyone... feeling a bit whacky this morning... there are so many more subjects to explore:
- I'm thinking of renting a chain saw on my next trip and trying to clear a 3-4ft wide path that zig-zags through the lot so that I can walk the lot to better assess the steepness at various locations. The path will remain as my walking path after the house is completed. Of course, if I don't like the path, I'll just let it grow over.
- I was going to leave the vegetation that I cut about 6" high, hoping that it will still hold the soil and slow the water drain in strong rains.
- I am trying to figure out a way to measure the steepness in order to build my own topography map. I'm starting to doubt the map that I got from topozone.com. I buit my SketchUp 3D model according to the topomap, but it doesn't correlate to some photos that I took along the south road.
- I tried taking some stereographic photos to get depth (and therefore a sense of elevation). I've done this in the past just by taking 2 pictures a few feet apart. If you hold the two photos close to each other and cross your eyes your brain fuzes the images and you see depth. It didn't seem to work in this case... not sure why.
- I tried to use my GPS to get elevation data. I know it's not accurate, but I wondered if it would be accurate on a relative scale. In otherwords, if I stand on a hilltop and read elevation, it might read X; and then if walk down hill by 5 feet, does it read X-5. I don't care if X is correct. I got interesting, but unusable results:
- if I move uphill, I can clearly see the GPS elevation increasing
- if I move downhill, I clearly see the GPS elevation decreasing
- if I stop, the GPS elevation will wander as much as 30 ft.
- even if this method of reading elevation would have worked, I still would have had the issue of associating that elevation with a lat/lon position. GPS will wander quite a bit in lat/lon also. Plus, if I'm walking through 10 ft high vegetation, I might not get the best GPS reception unless I can remote the antenna on to a stick that I carry.
- anyone have any simple techniques/ideas for mapping out elevation over a 1 acre, steep lot? I haven't found anything with a Google-search yet. By simple I mean a technique that one or two people can accomplish with simple tools (sticks, water levels, ladders, rope, tape measures, etc). Even if it takes a week to complete, it would be worth it (3-4 hours of work a day, and use the rest of the day for snorkeling and exploring - I also have to give my wife beach time). |
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djswan
Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Posts: 333
Location: Montana, USA
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| Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 8:38 am Post subject: |
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Fill that water level up with rum. Might make the time go by quicker.
Bison are a bit too ornry to be a beast of burden. You're on the right track. Goats will eat your building materials or clear a path better than a chainsaw.
Use a story pole with the water level.
Cut a good straight stick for it. Notch all your plans in wood.
_________________
The definition of architect is "Master Builder".
I am a builder and there are no masters.
"I'm not one of those who in expressing opinions confine themselves to facts"
Mark Twain |
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SDR
Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Posts: 1534
Location: San Francisco
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| Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 9:16 am Post subject: |
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If you had a small helium balloon, a line with marked ping pong balls at one-foot intervals, and a transit on a tripod at the top of the hill. . .
then you would just need a way of knowing where on the "horizontal" plane each setting was located. Or does a transit also measure azimuth and distance ?
SDR |
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EngRMP
Joined: 05 Mar 2008
Posts: 40
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| Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:17 am Post subject: |
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Hi SDR,
Very clever idea! I thought you had it... but then I realized:
- I haven’t told you that the vegetation along the road is 10 ft high also (in most places), so I’d ned to build a platform to raise the transit up above the vegetation in order to see the balloon-ruler.
- also, I think you need two transits to do this, don’t you? With only one transit, you don’t know where along the radial path (range from transit) the balloon is (you get azimuth and elevation from the transit, but you also need range).
- of course, you’d also need a very calm day.
I'm still considering this though.... it might still be workable... |
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EngRMP
Joined: 05 Mar 2008
Posts: 40
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| Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:37 am Post subject: Access to outside of house... |
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Hmmmm.... the last topic got me thinking about access:
- so, I build this steel truss that is at the same level as the south road, and protrudes north about 40 ft (20 ft setback + 20 ft house depth).
- how do I construct the house when I only have the platform big enough for the house? Do I build a temporary platform that creates a 6 ft wide base perimeter around the house, so that there is outside access to the house for construction? In other words, don't you need access to the outside of the house in order to construct the house? Can you build the house in three sections on the road-side platform and then winch them along the truss to position them?
- same question remains after the house is built: don't I need access to the outside of the house for maintenance? How do you get access to the outside of the house if the house is on stilts. A long ladder is not going to be practical. Maybe I need to design the concept of a rope ladder that connects to the roof, but can be moved to any point along the outside of the house. Then, you have to get onto the roof from the road-side platform in order to get to the rope-ladder.
Hmmm... maybe I have to have a 5-6 ft permanent platform around the house, with guard rail. I'm not sure that this will meet building code because of hurricane wind concerns. |
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nanrehvasconez
Joined: 25 Feb 2008
Posts: 59
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| Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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I have to be sarcastic; you are trying to drink champagne, but cannot afford beer!
The info you provide is too sketchy, is the lot uphill, downhill? Do the locality enforces any building codes, is the geology feasible to put caissons.
The ideal way to build steep downhill lots is by cantilevering the building, very dramatic, very expensive
NAN |
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EngRMP
Joined: 05 Mar 2008
Posts: 40
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| Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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Hi NAN,
Thanks for the input. I don't mind sarcasism; I like Champagne, beer and wining... I mean wine (kidding!). I suspect that you're right, but I'm not willing to throw out the idea of Champagne or beer until proper due diligence has made it obvious to do so. Who knows, in 10 years some Champagnes might be as cheap as beer (I can't wait to hear the response to this one!).
If you look back through my posts you'll find a photo of the lot from Google Earth, with a topo map and a GPS location. That should give you a sense of the steepness (be careful to read the warning about using Google Earth supplied topography).
Good question about the geology. I have started to research that but have not come up with anything useful from Google. I'm sure that I just don't know enough about geology to know how to look for answers, or how to understand the info. But, I have 10 years to study. If I get to meet with an engineer on my next trip to the lot, geology and construction options will be high priority on my list of questions.
Hmmm... I wonder if there are online geology forums where I might be able to start the education process. I have to tell you, people on this forum have been extremely helpful, and I am very grateful. |
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mx2
Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 1814
Location: Miami, Florida
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| Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | By steep I mean that it drops 100 ft over about 200ft of travel |
I don't know why everyone thinks this is steep... a 1:2 slope is not bad, but it could be dramatic, as well as subdued, if wanted.
mx2.5
_________________
*Art of Architecture: The conscious use of skill and creative imagination in the production of an aesthetic building.
*Science of Architecture: The calculated use of technical skill and knowledge in the construction of a functional building. |
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djswan
Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Posts: 333
Location: Montana, USA
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| Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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Howdy from Montana!
Well once again, I am going to shamelessly promote and recommend The Timber Framers Guild. Dedicated to education in the art and craft of timber framing. Very crafty those folks are, get er dun, and make something special.
Like a trebuchet
I really hope this helps your situation
Derek
_________________
The definition of architect is "Master Builder".
I am a builder and there are no masters.
"I'm not one of those who in expressing opinions confine themselves to facts"
Mark Twain |
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birgco
Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 253
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| Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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Hi EngRMP, Check out on Google search,
St. Croix Geology since Whetten, An Introduction.
Being an island, it is no surprise there is plenty
of rock down under. Just for fun (and info),
the next time you are visiting, hire a couple of laborers
and dig a few test holes. Hopefully you should hit "paydirt"
a few feet down. Chip off some of the rock and
your friendly local geologist should be able to tell
you the rock type. Now this doesn't take the place of
a serious load bearing study (Heaven forbid we don't
want any negative nellies to worry), but it should
tell you enough to procede in the right direction and it's
also good to know how far down your rock base is.
(btw. if you don't hit rock after about 3 feet, stop digging, we
don't want to kill the laborers with a deep, unstable hole.)
At the same time, take a soil sample too. Always nice to know
what kind of dirt we are dealing with for septics and drainage.
Now get to work, only 3644 days to go! |
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SDR
Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Posts: 1534
Location: San Francisco
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| Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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Perhaps NAN and I are Wright fans -- but iI don't see that cantilevering is "ideal" in any way other than aesthetic. Above is the Sturges house in Los Angeles, from 1939.
Previous discussion has made clear that the road and future house are at the top of the property.
As for a Medieval siege engine. . .hmm. Home sweet home ? [cue sound of cat yowl, rapidly fading. . .]
SDR |
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djswan
Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Posts: 333
Location: Montana, USA
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| Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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Honesty is the best policy. I have to admit, every picture everyone else here has posted is of ugly architecture. Is this all you see?
Derek
_________________
The definition of architect is "Master Builder".
I am a builder and there are no masters.
"I'm not one of those who in expressing opinions confine themselves to facts"
Mark Twain |
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SDR
Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Posts: 1534
Location: San Francisco
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| Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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Hmm ? Obscurity becomes you -- up to a point. . . Try me again.
SDR |
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birgco
Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 253
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| Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Wise man once said, beauty is in eye of beholder. |
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