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gaetanomarano
Joined: 03 Jun 2007
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alexneverhurts
Joined: 01 Jun 2007
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 Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 10:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Not sure about the efficiency of those massive fans, but apparently such structure wasn't come from considerate engineers. |
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gaetanomarano
Joined: 03 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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| alexneverhurts wrote: | | Not sure about the efficiency of those massive fans, but apparently such structure wasn't come from considerate engineers. |
the small rotors (best if smaller) give more energy since they run (also) with slow speed winds and faster than big rotors with high speed winds ... the image published in my article is NOT a "project" but just a sketch to explain a concept ... clearly, the REAL buildings will be very much different from my sketch and will need lots of study and wind tunnel tests to discover the best and most energy-efficient design
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JWmHarmon
Joined: 15 Apr 2004
Posts: 110
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 4:23 pm Post subject: What is the best location for wind generators on skyscrapers |
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I was in Columbus, Ohio, USA, recently trying to get into a skyscraper on a breezy day. The downdraft was strong and blowing in my face as I approached the entrance. It required significant effort to get to the door.
An analysis of the varying air pressures surrounding a building might give sufficient data to determine the best location of wind generators. They could become an integral design element of new skyscrapers.
It might increase the efficientcy to channel the wind through a Venturi opening. Perhaps it could then be redirected to minimize the surface air flow.
Another thought for some enterprising engineer: Design an elevator that runs a generator on the way down letting gravity supply the needed energy to turn the generator.
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mx2
millennium club
Joined: 18 Jan 2006
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Location: Miami, Florida
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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I had always assumed the surface airflow of high-rises was a vertical trajectory mostly and/or horizontal but parallel to the surface, except for at the very top or edges...like a river of water slamming up against a boulder. It wouldn't make sense to have rotors facing the wall then...but I'm willing to be wrong. 
mx2.5
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*Science of Architecture: The calculated use of technical skill and knowledge in the construction of a functional building. |
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JWmHarmon
Joined: 15 Apr 2004
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Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 9:40 pm Post subject: The Green Skyscraper by Ken Yeang |
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The following site shows a rather long article that includes references to wind generated power from scyscrapers among other technologies includine using updrafts to generate electricity.
It make references to "The Green Skyscraper."
Yeang, Ken.��� The Green Skyscraper, London, Munich, New York: Prestel Verlag, 1999.
http://sd-metroinfo.org/Sustainable_Skyscrapers.htm
Title of the article:
The City College of New York
The School of Architecture, Urban Design and Landscape Architecture
"THE ECOLOGICAL SKYSCRAPER"
Jos. Antonio Columna - May 12, 2004
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alexneverhurts
Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Posts: 43
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| Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 9:19 am Post subject: |
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| gaetanomarano wrote: | | alexneverhurts wrote: | | Not sure about the efficiency of those massive fans, but apparently such structure wasn't come from considerate engineers. |
the small rotors (best if smaller) give more energy since they run (also) with slow speed winds and faster than big rotors with high speed winds ... the image published in my article is NOT a "project" but just a sketch to explain a concept ... clearly, the REAL buildings will be very much different from my sketch and will need lots of study and wind tunnel tests to discover the best and most energy-efficient design
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Then I guess the con of your design is simply the cost issue of both establishment and maintenance. And the improvement in efficiency of using array of motors rather than one (wind turbine) is still doubtful to meet the exceeding cost.
BTW, it seems that some people here was confused, that you're actually proposing a new idea of windmill serves as a power plant, not an energy efficient building, right? |
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mx2
millennium club
Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 1928
Location: Miami, Florida
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| Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 10:04 am Post subject: |
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Great article JW...it's irrelevant whether it's to be self-sustaining or generate power for others since the issue is exactly the same. This quote was somewhat in line with the original posters idea...
| Quote: | | Since wind power increases in direct relation to height, the orientation and the built form of Skyscrapers offer a great opportunity for harnessing this resource by using wind turbines and thus reducing the consumption of fossil fuel. The Wind Tower by Richard Rogers, a design for a small triangular plot in a hill of central Tokyo, is an example for this type of development funneling the high wind velocities of high altitudes for efficient wind energy generation design. The building�s shape encourages wind to pass through a gap between the main building and a freestanding service tower.� The curve of the building compresses and accelerates the wind by 200 percent providing a greater amount of clean power. Computer models for this design indicate that, if built, the Tower will not require additional power and perhaps export saved energy to the city grid. The service tower also acts as chimney ventilation under the action of the sun and wind. |
The answer lies in aerodynamics; since buildings do not have to be extruded boxes. Channelling wind, sun and heat and responding with architectural form can lead to some very interesting buildings. Sustainability is certainly the "wave" of the future...
mx2.5
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*Science of Architecture: The calculated use of technical skill and knowledge in the construction of a functional building. |
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gaetanomarano
Joined: 03 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 7:53 pm Post subject: Re: What is the best location for wind generators on skyscra |
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| JWmHarmon wrote: | | They could become an integral design element of new skyscrapers. |
but only if will solved the problems of the vibrations and noise of the rotors (like those faced to-day by the peoples living near the existing wind turbines) since these "green buildings" will have hundreds apartments and offices
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gaetanomarano
Joined: 03 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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| mx2 wrote: | | It wouldn't make sense to have rotors facing the wall... |
in my wind-building concept the rotors "face the walls" since ...it has NO walls...  ... its structure is completely OPEN to allow the wind to drive (also) the rotors inside it
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gaetanomarano
Joined: 03 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:06 pm Post subject: Re: The Green Skyscraper by Ken Yeang |
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| JWmHarmon wrote: | | It make references to "The Green Skyscraper." |
my "Wind Energy Skyscrapers" are NOT a new version of "green buildings" (with two-three rotors to save 10-15% of energy) but a kind of specialized "energy-only production buildings" with hundreds rotors and no apartments or offices
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gaetanomarano
Joined: 03 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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| alexneverhurts wrote: | | Then I guess the con of your design is simply the cost issue of both establishment and maintenance. And the improvement in efficiency of using array of motors rather than one (wind turbine) is still doubtful to meet the exceeding cost. |
"low cost energy" is the goal of my proposal, and, since the current price of the standard wind turbines' energy already equals the price of the oil/methane-derived energy (as you can read in this article) the (50% lower price) energy of the Wind Energy Skyscrapers would be the (absolutely) CHEAPEST source of the energy market!
("50%" is only my guess, of course)
| Quote: | | BTW, it seems that some people here was confused, that you're actually proposing a new idea of windmill serves as a power plant, not an energy efficient building, right? |
you're right ...my design is an "energy-only production building" not a "green building" then (to avoid any confusion) I've added this text in my article:
To avoid any misunderstanding about my idea, I wish to say that my "Wind Energy Skyscrapers" are NOT a new version of "green buildings" built INSIDE the cities (with thousands peoples living and working in their apartments and offices near the rotors!) but just a kind of specialized and uninhabited "energy production buildings" built a few miles away from cities to save on the energy-transfer loss.
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Last edited by gaetanomarano on Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:49 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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gaetanomarano
Joined: 03 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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| mx2 wrote: | | ...it's irrelevant whether it's to be self-sustaining or generate power for others... |
my W.E.S. is not a "green building" with two-three rotors added to an apartments and offices' building but a TRUE and FULL "Wind Energy POWER PLANT" (something like the existing nuclear, oil and methane power plants, but without any radiation, pollution and CO2 emissions...) built a few miles away from cities and NEVER inside them
probably, a better (and clearer) name for my idea is: "Skyscraper-like Wind Power Plant"
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mx2
millennium club
Joined: 18 Jan 2006
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Location: Miami, Florida
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| Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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So it's just a BIG windmill? That's it?...
Oh, phooey...big deal. Sorry but there's nothing much to it then. The problems are minor and quite honestly it's better to build miles and miles of windmills on large open farms far awya form city cores...
mx2.5
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*Science of Architecture: The calculated use of technical skill and knowledge in the construction of a functional building. |
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lekizz
millennium club
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
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Location: UK
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| Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 4:10 am Post subject: |
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I agree with mx2, it looks ugly as sin, personally I would prefer one or two large graceful wind turbines than dozens of tiny ones. I would think that one large turbine will be far more efficient than dozens of tiny ones. Imagine the maintainance required on your 50 generators and 200 blades!!
The advantage of incorporating wind turbines into high rise buildings is (a) modern cities demand lots of high rise buildings (b) cities (and high rise buildings) demand lots of energy (c) wind energy is cheap (d) air movement is a lot greater at high altitudes |
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