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phansford
Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 556
Location: SW Ohio
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 Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2004 11:01 am Post subject: |
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| phansford wrote: | | I done on this thread - Richard seems to confuse politics and politicans with Architects and Architecture. I recommend that you refrain from posting in any other forum except for the Fireside - free-for-all. |
The subject is architecture. Not your hatred for the United States. |
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Richard Haut
millennium club
Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 1137
Location: Nice, France
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| Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2004 11:28 am Post subject: |
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You don't think that American aggression affects architecture ?
That is up to you - but if you think that architecture and American architects in particular will remain unaffected then you may be tragically disappointed.
I am not required to like your nation. And unlike the terrorist on this thread who calls for France to be bombed, I am not suggesting anything bad happens to you nervous people.
Architecturally, I consider the most pivotal event recently to be the razing of the City of a Thousand Mosques. ("Pivotal" does not have to mean positive. The city of Auschwitz was pivotal in architectural terms - if you want to know more, let me know, but you won't like the story).
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Richard Haut has worked with the architectural profession for over 25 years and produces the weekly Richard Haut's Competitions, which has given architects details of many thousands of projects for which they can apply across Britain and Europe. |
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leini
Joined: 26 Sep 2004
Posts: 13
Location: India
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| Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2004 11:59 am Post subject: |
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however heated the discussion may have become, i think it points us in a rather useful direction as far as the thread is concerned: the influence of political rulers upon the architecture of a nation, or now even the world.
are political powers strong enough today to establish an architectural language as they were in the days of kings?
richard: i agree that american aggression does influence architecture, but that needn't be the case only with the states.
the muslim invasion of india initially consisted of destroying hindu temples and using the debris to build mosques, but it has still led to some of the most beautiful architecture we have today.
good architecture or bad is not the criteria, pivotal is. pivotal in what sense exactly will probably only be able to be determined in retrospect, ie the future. gehry and bilbao will be remembered, whatever the reason for it may be. the early 21st century is not really going to be viewed as the age of the skyscraper, because they have been around for over a hundred years.
maybe we need to try and understand what it is about our generation that is different from the rest....technology yes. i guess due thought should be given to green architecture as well.
i am not completely sure yet which building will get my vote, but i'd like to throw in a few names as well, or maybe just one!
what about the kansai intl airport by renzo piano? |
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phansford
Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 556
Location: SW Ohio
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| Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2004 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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I find the pivotal moment in present day architecture in the use of computers to develop our designs and to construct our buildings. You find the pivotal points in war and agression. Interesting.
Would that include French Agression or just American. Seems to me you did pretty good in being agressive in africa and asia.
I remember running a high school student design competition. The project was a new headquarters for a Vietnam Veterans group. One student had a design steeped with Classical French motifs. One critic, a veteran of Viet Nam, went ballistic. The shapes reminded him of the Prison Camps of the Viet Cong. It was a haunting experience. See in this case French forms = Communist
Glass Houses Richard Glass Houses. And again, I don't support the Irag War. See in America we are allowed to voice our disagreement with the government. And children are allowed to attend school wearing head scarves. |
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LeCorbusier
Joined: 15 Apr 2004
Posts: 139
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| Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2004 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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| In what respect do you think American aggression affects world architecture? I have a few opionions of my own, but Im curious as to what you mean. Do you mean American influence over world economies which in turn may affect construction costs and methods? Or are you speaking on architectural design, in which I wouldnt give the American aggression that much credit. Or do you mean capitalism in General? I think oft en American Industry is to blame, not the American government or politicians. During my recent trip to Italy, I was very dismayed to find a McDonald's directly across from the Pantheon. So sad to see. Corporations are the agressors and probably have the biggest negative impact on the world with regard to planning and architecture. |
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Richard Haut
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Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 1137
Location: Nice, France
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| Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2004 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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No country has a good record of Imperialism. Not Britain, nor Belgium, nor Germany, nor France - nor any of the others.
The British Empire was closely connected with that British invention - slavery. It has a lot in common with slavery.
Getting out of Empires is both difficult and dangerous - for the Imperialists and, especially, those whose nation is escaping the empire.
The French war in Algeria was an obscenity that should never have happened - but it did. Half a century ago.
Would you say that a western nation could give people it didn't like blankets infected with smallpox - and then say to Americans who objected "ah ha ! that's what you did to the Native Americans" so it's alright for us to do it now ?
For America to become an imperialist nation is contrary to everything that America was founded for as a nation - everything.
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Richard Haut has worked with the architectural profession for over 25 years and produces the weekly Richard Haut's Competitions, which has given architects details of many thousands of projects for which they can apply across Britain and Europe. |
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phansford
Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 556
Location: SW Ohio
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| Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2004 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Richard Haut wrote: | No country has a good record of Imperialism. Not Britain, nor Belgium, nor Germany, nor France - nor any of the others.
The British Empire was closely connected with that British invention - slavery. It has a lot in common with slavery.
Getting out of Empires is both difficult and dangerous - for the Imperialists and, especially, those whose nation is escaping the empire.
The French war in Algeria was an obscenity that should never have happened - but it did. Half a century ago.
Would you say that a western nation could give people it didn't like blankets infected with smallpox - and then say to Americans who objected "ah ha ! that's what you did to the Native Americans" so it's alright for us to do it now ?
For America to become an imperialist nation is contrary to everything that America was founded for as a nation - everything. |
Richard this is a good post. And if America stays in Irag and it becomes a US territory, then you have every right to say and feel the way you do. If we stay I will be ticked off and join you. I think there would be riots in the street here in the states. It is not the American way, but that does not equate to the Bush way. Let me assure you that you are not half as upset about the election as many Americans. |
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Richard Haut
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Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 1137
Location: Nice, France
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| Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2004 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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That is precisely what I meant about people being concerned about the US election.
It was a chance to get these people - whatever they are - out. (And let's be fair: I would say the same about Blair who is causing more destruction to British culture than I would have thought possible).
It was Chirac of France who said, at the time of the UN "evidence" farce, that it is your real friends who tell you when you are doing wrong.
If Bush had attacked Iraq to help the Iraqis to establish a real democratic country, he would have tried to help the ordinary people - to show that America was there to assist.
The insurgents are not terrorists - that is the tragedy. Bush's tactics are deliberately alienating Sunni, Shia, Kurd, Turcoman - everybody.
Why do people like me become so angry with America (and the anger in Britain is at boiling point) ?
Because you are better than this - you are a nation that people admire and like. Bush is shaming everything that your nation stands for.
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Richard Haut has worked with the architectural profession for over 25 years and produces the weekly Richard Haut's Competitions, which has given architects details of many thousands of projects for which they can apply across Britain and Europe. |
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phansford
Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 556
Location: SW Ohio
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| Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2004 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Amen - Using an American saying - "You're preaching to the Choir, baby." |
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francojean23
Joined: 14 Oct 2004
Posts: 36
Location: Boston
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| Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2004 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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WHOA WHOA WHOA...did i just enter a political forum...last time i checked it was design community...not express your political views.com...
if we could get back to architecture...
all the talk about mies does not by any means indicate there are no pivotal buildings of the current...there will always be pivotal buildings of every time period...the discussion was which ones do people think will be...
i would argue that wrights gugg was not designed to stand apart from "typical" design and also not to just say "look at me" either...there are several reasons for the design, both the ramping and the facade that shy away from the surroundings...
and as for gehry designing a building liked by everyone?...when did that happen after bilboa...considering the mass amount of critiques on it...
and i might mention the driving force behind all architects of the modern era...the idea that architecture could improve life...they all had social agendas...almost all socialist communists or marxist...
the downside is that at times they believe they knew more than the client...but they did most of the time anyways...
so if we could get some posts about possible pivotals...would be great...this isn't an argument...only a discussion |
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Richard Haut
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Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 1137
Location: Nice, France
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| Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2004 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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Pivotal ?
the World Trade Centre.
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Richard Haut has worked with the architectural profession for over 25 years and produces the weekly Richard Haut's Competitions, which has given architects details of many thousands of projects for which they can apply across Britain and Europe. |
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francojean23
Joined: 14 Oct 2004
Posts: 36
Location: Boston
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| Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2004 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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| i would call it a monumental building...but one it's not built yet...and two...it's pretty documented that the popular buildings of the time are hardly considered pivotal as far as design... |
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Richard Haut
millennium club
Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 1137
Location: Nice, France
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| Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2004 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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what is pivotal is what happened to it.
American architecture cannot be the same after 9.11 as it was before. However to me (and I say this as someone who is not american), I do not believe that American architecture is yet able to move beyond it.
_________________
Richard Haut has worked with the architectural profession for over 25 years and produces the weekly Richard Haut's Competitions, which has given architects details of many thousands of projects for which they can apply across Britain and Europe. |
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francojean23
Joined: 14 Oct 2004
Posts: 36
Location: Boston
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| Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2004 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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| i agree that no architect worldwide could develop and master plan the wtc site so close to the destruction...and the rush to rebuild would result in a lesser design from anyone... |
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phansford
Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 556
Location: SW Ohio
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| Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2004 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Richard Haut wrote: | what is pivotal is what happened to it.
American architecture cannot be the same after 9.11 as it was before. However to me (and I say this as someone who is not american), I do not believe that American architecture is yet able to move beyond it. |
This gets to my earlier posts. Is it really a pivotal building? The destruction of the WTC towers is certainly pivotal. It reminds me of the photos of the implosion of Igue- Pruitt (spelling) which many mark as the end of Modernism. (Let's say classical Modernism and call everything that has followed mannerist Modernism)
Speaking from my vantage point, which is far removed from New York and the WTC, it has not affected design thoughts here in the middle. Now for myself - I want to work in a regional manner , which is the american Midwest. Can you further explain your thoughts about before and after? |
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