|
View previous topic :: View next topic
|
| Author |
Message |
francojean23
Joined: 14 Oct 2004
Posts: 36
Location: Boston
|
 Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2004 2:16 pm Post subject: what current building will be considered a pivotal point... |
    |
|
| what particular building of now will be considered a pivotal point in the field of architecture 50 years from now...100 years from now...500 years from now...excusing the fact that many of these building today probably won't be around in 500 years...but what piece will be studied when our era becomes history...?
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Bryce Hanna
Joined: 10 Sep 2004
Posts: 9
Location: Chicago, IL - USA
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 12:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I can’t believe that more people haven’t jumped on this. I’ll submit one obvious name – The Guggenheim Museum in Bilbao Spain by FOG. It marked the apotheosis of Gehry’s career and the advent of the contemporary era of architecture-as-regional-identity. I can’t think of a previous era when this occurred, other than the Middle Ages, when cathedrals became the regional epicenters of cultural activity. And on a cynical note I would add that since FOG has been using the exact same formal vocabulary he developed at Bilbao to erect major metropolitan centerpieces all over the world, it’s important to have a source for all the cloning.
As a counterpoint I would add Tadao Ando’s church of light. It’s a polar opposite in terms of formal maneuvers, budget, scale and hype. But it’s great.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Richard Haut
millennium club
Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 1128
Location: Nice, France
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 2:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
nothing between Gehry and the Middle Ages ?
I greatly admire what Gehry achieved in Bilbao, but you should get out more.
Just start with London.
take a trip to London - and really take a look around. The 17th., 18th. and 19th. Century buildings are wonderful. The streetscapes, the focal buildings (ignore the modernish stuff) - go and look at it.
then when you are sufficiently surprised, go to Paris and beyond.
there have been Cathedrals built since the Middle Ages and some of them are really quite good ............
_________________
Richard Haut has worked with the architectural profession for over 25 years and produces the weekly Richard Haut's Competitions, which has given architects details of many thousands of projects for which they can apply across Britain and Europe. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bryce Hanna
Joined: 10 Sep 2004
Posts: 9
Location: Chicago, IL - USA
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 5:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Richard, except among those whose education has been of the minimalist style, it's typically considered bad form to offer an insult without contributing something of substance to the discussion.
I've been to London several times, and lived in Versailles (close enough to Paris to make a few visits). While those cities contain great buildings, they are not defined by them the way that Chartres was defined by its cathedral, or the way Bilbao has been re-defined by the Guggenheim.
Nothing between Gehry and the Middle ages? Yes, it's deliberately outrageous, and leaves a nice big gap for people to offer up some specific examples, both popular and obscure. “go to Paris and beyond”, that’s the best you can do? Please Richard, if you are going to be pompous at least try to exhibit some intellectual adroitness so that we can all be entertained by your wit instead of simply saddened by your haughtiness.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Richard Haut
millennium club
Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 1128
Location: Nice, France
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 2:56 am Post subject: |
|
|
"Nothing between Gehry and the Middle ages? "
Deliberately outrageous - and I felt that it deserved a pompous reply since it implied ignorance whether real or used merely for effect.
And I suspect that the people of Bilbao - much as they like the building and that it attracts visitors - would strongly object to the idea that their city was only defined by it. (The people of Paris were less grateful for their Gehry building as I recall).
To compare it to Chartres Cathedral (at any level) is something on which I will not even comment for fear of causing further offence.
_________________
Richard Haut has worked with the architectural profession for over 25 years and produces the weekly Richard Haut's Competitions, which has given architects details of many thousands of projects for which they can apply across Britain and Europe. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Richard Haut
millennium club
Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 1128
Location: Nice, France
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 3:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
to return to the subject .........
I would suggest that for many cities the pivotal design is not a building but urban space.
Bernini's piazza in front of St. Peter's, St. Marks square in Venice, the main squares of cities like Pisa or Milan. Is it Notre-Dame or Haussmann's boulevards and squares which are more defining, more pivotal, for Paris.
For London, the streetscape of Georgian housing is one of its most easily recognised defining elements as a city.
could the Parvis in some cases be more important in this respect than the Cathedral itself ? Perhaps it is the distinction between the terms "pivotal" and "focal".
_________________
Richard Haut has worked with the architectural profession for over 25 years and produces the weekly Richard Haut's Competitions, which has given architects details of many thousands of projects for which they can apply across Britain and Europe. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
P.C.
millennium club
Joined: 26 May 2004
Posts: 2163
Location: Denmark
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 4:42 am Post subject: |
|
|
Hi
"Nothing between Gehry and the Middle ages? "
Now first of all I have to admid that oposed others, I don\t think bilbao is such great an icon , I think it is a good attempt but unless you close your eyes and mind to the fact that this is just a primitive computer mesh translated into a building shell that don\t even offer the floors and walls, but this is a quite different discussion.
Now did bilbao produce anything but other Icons did it make family houses did it evolve technology or do it stay the same concept as when 20 years ago, the first computer meshes showed , but swam daruber maby it is more relevant to ask how long the glass and steel monsters og today\s architecture will last --------- those of you who know how a 40 year old medium highrise look , those of you who seen the ugly acturly quite promitive concrete foundations in concrete mastodonts where it is more economic to tear them down and build another 40 year lasting glass and steel monster.
Realy who will emagine how most of these glass and steel monsters look in 50 years, when it is no good buisness to "restore" them ----- would anyone in 50 years ,when we finaly found out how to make the computer work a building a third the cost ,where original full-scale drawings offer you to replace huge quantities of a structure, even rebuild it so it smooth interconnect the original form but now offering a tower whare before no tower was.
Bilbao did somthing in architecture, but if you must be real critic ,it fail the ability to inspire plain housing, the method shuld after 20 years be develobed into somthing that don't mean building two houses when you want one . Bilbao opened for one out of many possible new technikes but sadly the architectural community can not emagine computers to do other things than tradisional accounts and fancy zero thickness computer meshes, ---- infact bilbao caused a standstill lasting 20 years . Well my personal oppinion but then how did it influence the building industrie , it didn't so how great is it realy.
I think that in 200 years it will _not_ be the angled squareboxes, it will not be the hybrid hightech lookalikes as they will only last max 70 years. But it will be those buildings that offer flexibility is easy to repair ,those who carry a lot of nice detail . As if you look just 10 20 years ahead you will know that then the tradisional means could not develob further the materials couldn't become worse and the craftmanship and skills will be compleatly lost ------ unless they are replaced with somthing that will be the skills and crafts of the tools avaible then. Right now it is just a loss, right now we lose tradisional skills every day.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LeCorbusier
Joined: 15 Apr 2004
Posts: 139
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bryce Hanna
Joined: 10 Sep 2004
Posts: 9
Location: Chicago, IL - USA
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 9:54 am Post subject: |
|
|
Richard
Your inability to contribute anything of substance to this thread is utterly astounding. The original post asked for examples of contemporary works of architecture that are so significant that they will be studied by future generations. Rather than contribute to that dialogue you offer nothing but insults. Can your tag line about being involved in the architectural profession for 25 years possibly be true when you continually exhibit the naïveté of a first year architecture student? You’ve had ample opportunity to share your knowledge yet you’ve done nothing but embarrass yourself here.
Come on Richard, throw it down baby. One building, or urban space, that’s all I ask. I’ll even give you a 20 year window, which is pushing the envelope of ‘contemporary.’
Look at the example above by LeCorbusier if you’re having problems grasping this concept. Something intelligent was contributed, and a picture was provided to boot!
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Richard Haut
millennium club
Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 1128
Location: Nice, France
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 10:45 am Post subject: |
|
|
I consider that the distinction between urban spaces and buildings being pivotal is important - you evidently disagree. Using historic examples merely tried to illustrate the point.
Contemporary urban spaces I consider to be of less note - you may disagree, but I would consider that to be one of the contemporary difficulties facing architects.
The only structure that I would choose is by the Chinese-American I.M. Pei - his pyramid at the Louvre. I believe that even though it is a structure within a building, it provides a link between the contemporary and significant historic surroundings that is unique. It is pivotal in the sense that it gives a sense of the new in a setting which is by definition of another age. (Mind you, it probably is outside the "window" that you allow me).
Gehry's Bilbao Guggenheim is a fascinating building and will doubtless be appreciated by future generations. Appreciated - but not venerated.
If you consider this viewpoint naive, then that is just tough, isn't it ?
_________________
Richard Haut has worked with the architectural profession for over 25 years and produces the weekly Richard Haut's Competitions, which has given architects details of many thousands of projects for which they can apply across Britain and Europe. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Architorture
millennium club
Joined: 31 Jul 2004
Posts: 1376
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 1:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Richard Haut wrote: | And I suspect that the people of Bilbao - much as they like the building and that it attracts visitors - would strongly object to the idea that their city was only defined by it. (The people of Paris were less grateful for their Gehry building as I recall).
|
i visited bilbao when i was abroad last year with a another guy in my class who has family who have lived in bilbao for years and years...they are basque [sp?]...
as far as i could tell they were very proud of their museum and were very happy to have it there and felt it somewhat defined their home, since as i'm sure you are aware the basque don't necessarily feel welcome or wish to be welcome in greater spain...
i'm certainly at least for the people of bilbao that FOG did them a great service and they will venerate the building for many years to come
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Richard Haut
millennium club
Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 1128
Location: Nice, France
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 12:13 am Post subject: |
|
|
I agree that the building has been of great help to Bilbao and is very much appreciated and liked by the city's population.
It is a very successful building.
It has given Bilbao a focus which attracts large numbers of visitors. Hopefully that will help the economic recovery of Bilbao.
What the building is doing is helping the Basques of Bilbao to re-establish their identity by giving a positive focus to their city - it is not a building that in itself is representative of Basque identity. That is not its function.
The new Scottish Parliament however will I believe be seen as symbolic of Scottish identity (although designed by a Spaniard) because that was part of its purpose and it is I believe a good enough building to achieve that aim.
_________________
Richard Haut has worked with the architectural profession for over 25 years and produces the weekly Richard Haut's Competitions, which has given architects details of many thousands of projects for which they can apply across Britain and Europe. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Architorture
millennium club
Joined: 31 Jul 2004
Posts: 1376
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 12:23 am Post subject: |
|
|
they did make alot of reference in bilbao about the forms of the building and the cladding having some kind of connection to the boat building industry in bilbao...
of course, as we all know, architects love to post rationalize, so i imagine that may have been a happy coincidence...especially once we look at some other FOG buildings that have nothing to do with ships
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bryce Hanna
Joined: 10 Sep 2004
Posts: 9
Location: Chicago, IL - USA
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 8:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
Richard
The Louvre Pyramid is an excellent example. Even when divorced from an aesthetic evaluation, the controversy surrounding the structure makes it an important piece to study. Time marches on, and there will continually be a need to juxtapose new structures against older ones. How do you do that? How has it been done well (or not well) in the past?
Donald
I think that the Sear Tower is also notable for being the ugliest, most scaleless and oppressive monstrosity of recent times. But maybe I’m jaded from having to work next to it for so many years. But you’re spot-on regarding its structural significance. On that note, I think that you should include the Hancock with it – same city, same firm, radically different structural systems.
I actually don’t like Bilbao, but it always spices up the conversation . Here’s a slightly more obscure submission: the Jean-Marie Tjibaou Cultural Center, Nouméa - New Caledonia by Renzo Piano. As a free standing structure I think it’s brilliant. Elegant, contextual, and technologically innovative.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
francojean23
Joined: 14 Oct 2004
Posts: 36
Location: Boston
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 1:16 pm Post subject: |
|
|
so great to come back to a topic started and see some good replies...been out of the loop the past few days with a critique...or i would have posted sooner...
i purposely did not start the topic with my own opinion to encourage others to put theirs forward before criticizing others...
some very interesting points were brought up in the replies...
i would definately agree that future generations will study and consider the gugg bilbao museum pivotal in architecture...i myself love the building...and loathe everything since by a man who destroys the otherwise high-regard name of frank...FLW...
i would say that the kahn building...though great, is not contemporary...as i would say most architectural students are already studying this building in school...
pei's glass pyramid is a great piece of architecture that will surely be studied as a perfect meld of old and new architecture...
simply for the marvel of piano to understand the culture so in depth to create a building that is probably the best attempt at bringing a culture into the now without disturbing a thing...
so to continue the discussion...might i offer up the institut du monde arabe...by jean nouvel...
a building so loved by the people around it as well as a excellent integration of an outside culture into france...a feat not easily accomplished...haha
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
blogger
del.icio.us
digg
slashdot
