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darkuser
Joined: 02 Aug 2004
Posts: 8
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 Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2004 7:32 pm Post subject: When the Engineer fails the Architect |
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Well, this is a question from someone who is still contemplating whether or not to be an architect. I just want to know what happens when the structural engineer fails to deliver or produce the wildest dreams of an architect. thx
Dar |
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juberx
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 15
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| Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2004 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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Building a building require a lot of compromises... even though an architect might want a beautifully designed building, he/she will also recoginises the feasibility of it... If really, some things are not achievable, both the structural engineer and architect would and should work hand in hand to achieve the best possible results....
That's my opinion... I'm not sure if I answered your question...  |
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RWL
Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 399
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| Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2004 4:06 am Post subject: |
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| From the get-go the architect must know and have confidence in the structural engineer-- you don't select one from the yellow pages! Over time you develop close relationshis with various consultants, and simply, if one does not work well with you, you move to another. As noted in the other reply, there needs to be a "team" mentality set up, early-on, so the thinking of all parties comes together with understanding of the design concept and how it can be executed. |
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Kevin
Site Admin
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 1048
Location: Eugene, Oregon
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| Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2004 10:49 am Post subject: |
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| Plus - in a crude bottom line sense - in the classic architectural project arrangement in the U.S., the consultants work for the architect. So if a consultant (like a structural engineer) fails to deliver what is needed, they can be fired (and paid according to contract). |
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darkuser
Joined: 02 Aug 2004
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2004 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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| What i meant was, if both the client and the architect wanted a design which was impossible to engineer structurally, how does the engineer take the blame for it. |
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chewich
Joined: 06 Jun 2004
Posts: 19
Location: lebanon
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| Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2004 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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well the answer is very simple
it is or the architect is a stupid dreamer or the engineer is a traditional one
this is why an architect studies structure in universty so he dont make stupidities and buildings that could not be realized structurely
and this is why an engineer must have an imagination and not stuck in simple calculus and find reasonable solutions for reasonable achitectural projects
so dear darkuser before entering a debate about the relation between architect-engineer u must start by a question what is the role of each one of them
imagination is more important than knowledge
"Albert Einstein "
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chewich --- |
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darkuser
Joined: 02 Aug 2004
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2004 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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| chewich wrote: | | so dear darkuser before entering a debate about the relation between architect-engineer u must start by a question what is the role of each one of them |
Could you please enlighten me on this. As i've mentioned above, i'm still deciding between the two professions. It would be very helpful if you guys could tell me why you chose one and not the other. thx
dar |
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RWL
Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 399
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| Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2004 4:13 am Post subject: |
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Go to www.ncarb.org, and find a publication they produce where there is an explanation of the difference[s] between architects and engineers [of all disciplines]
Worth your time; good insight |
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chewich
Joined: 06 Jun 2004
Posts: 19
Location: lebanon
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| Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2004 4:25 am Post subject: |
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dear darkuser dont take my reply as a negative one
first of all you are a person who still does not know what to choose between architecture and civil engineer apparently
i have a question to you is there anything else that may attract you like buisness or political science , medecine because i think that u have just piked 2 names and trying to find who is the stronger so you can choose.
for architecture it is very simple , it is or you are born for it or not
that means if you have artistic tendences merged with engineering logic architecture is your place
if you like physics and mathematics purely with the aim of applying them to real world then engineering welcomes you.
if you only have artistic tendences without engineering logic i think the best place for you is interiror design or painting
so it is very simple you must not choose your future or your major in its beauty but u must really search what you were born for.
my friend every person that enters an artistic world is going to find it beautifull and unconsiously he would think he was born for it because architecture specially contains a lot of work but beautifull once so you dont feel the pain . so my friend take my advice see what you prefer and do it you can always take a part of criteria the list i gave you up.
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chewich --- |
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darkuser
Joined: 02 Aug 2004
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2004 9:12 am Post subject: |
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thx for the replies. the link doesn't work however.
Chewich,
I really did mean what i said: i wanted to be enlightened on this matter 'cause i'm currently stuck, and i only have a month to decide. My background is predominantly scientific, but i'm sure this was the case for many of you as well. There is no doubt in my mind that art will always be more interesting and enjoyable than science, but since i've never studied an artistic subject to higher level, this reckoning is superficial at best. It's just that i fail to understand how anybody could abandon creative art and design in favour of calculus. Surely this can't be the only factor affecting people's decisions.
Dar |
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RWL
Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 399
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| Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2004 10:50 am Post subject: |
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Sorry about the link-- it worked for me, but try
www.ncarb.org/Forms/archdiff.pdf
Should get you right to the document. |
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P.C.
Joined: 26 May 2004
Posts: 2163
Location: Denmark
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| Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 6:41 am Post subject: |
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Hi
You will find architects doing rebuilding old houses outlining new houses doing accounts making art or planning gardens, realy if you want to acturly build houses you shuld not study architecture but become an engineer. A building constructor or somthing that deal with the economy in building.
Personaly I do not mind that this is how things work, emty metal tophats with the need of building an intire house inside just to get the walls and floors, ugly steel beam lattrice in 4 layers just to bring a bit structural ability to hold wierd angled walls of 400 ton in the air just to make it look high/tech and spikes replacing relevant promises of progress and actural new technology ,do not make me promote architecture .
Anyway that maby is a choice that reflect social skills and expertations ,and as we just started a new millinium --- well then we could just re-invent everything again for yet another time. |
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tenenbaum
Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 175
Location: New York
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| Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2004 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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Dar,
If someone failed the employer, he is fired including the structural engineer failing the architect, and the architect failing the investor. Structural engineering is more rigorous, abstract, and numerical than architecture. Your dilemma needs talents for both that are very different. Architecture requires much more imagination than structural engineering, and so it is more risky. Santiago Calatrava studied both, and books about him may include an answer to your dilemma.
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Eugene Tenenbaum |
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Shankarmoorthy
Joined: 31 Oct 2006
Posts: 11
Location: ILLINOIS
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| Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:26 pm Post subject: Structure Vs Architect |
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Have u ever seen an architect agreeing with an Engineer??One lives on facts and other dreams!!In the US Dreamers employ Engineers...Either Dream comes true and the building falls one day or the dream fails but the building lives long!!!
To ANSWER YOUR QUESTION,Both are valuable fields in their own respects...go by your instinct.Since you have asked this question now...you are a thinker and you are an Engineer naturally..Cheers!!
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Shankar
www.srasys.com
www.elevatorinspection.com |
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P.C.
Joined: 26 May 2004
Posts: 2163
Location: Denmark
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| Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 10:42 am Post subject: |
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That's why we shuld jettison the old roles Gee -- just remember how architecture engaged the new options and havn't realy started profiting, from the very computer that alway's wasn't better than a pen.
And if somekind of rough computer generated auxilery of pieced together lengths of standard steel profiles and glass walls realy are in use such rough places ; then emagine what an architect could profit, now architecture can profit. There are no need for an architect and an engineer when computer programs snsure the structural integrety and when it can be done with rigid Lego mind. Ofcaurse the future is not forever steel profiles and glass walls , and frankly, that don't make the quality house I expect from digital projecting.. |
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