|
View previous topic :: View next topic
|
| Author |
Message |
Peter Camilleri
Joined: 16 Jun 2004
Posts: 15
Location: Sydney, Australia
|
 Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 8:25 pm Post subject: Anyone Want a New House for Under $2,000.00 |
    |
|
Yes you have read correctly!!!
Camotor is just finalising a new low cost house in the range which will be available shortly for under $2,000.00.
The house itself is titled "Housing for Life" and the idea is to provide people around the world with an affordable shelter which is one of the criteria for life.
This low cost housing principal is taking the world by storm and as poverty increases in hugely overpopulated areas the need for this type of low cost housing will dramatically increase.
Here at Camotor we are looking for interisted charity and/or government bodies interisted is providing housing in large volumes. We are looking at a partenered approach to solving the problem of housing shortages. We can offer the supply of all materials and the management of resources to enable communities to house themselves, thus taking ownership and pride in what they create.
Interisted parties should contact myself on - blocked -.au
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Peter Camilleri
Joined: 16 Jun 2004
Posts: 15
Location: Sydney, Australia
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2004 5:05 pm Post subject: Saving Face??? |
|
|
Dear Donald,
I have read many of you 106 postings on this website and it is clear that you are knowledgeable on many subjects. Your disbelief although surprises me.
I have been working on the low cost housing principle for over ten years and this latest design is a result of extensive research all over the world.
Your arrogance towards my posting also leads me to believe that you live in a first world country where housing needs to be an architectural masterpiece. In many poor countries that I have been in people are living under old demolished corrugated iron covered in plastic bags to try and make it waterproof.
Admittedly my house would never win any architectural design awards but it is safe secure waterproof shelter that can withstand the elements.
Included in the price are all the materials required for the construction of a 6m x 3.6m (20' x 12' in the old language) shelter and a 6m x 1.8m (20' x 6') verandah. This includes all the piers, flooring, walling and roofing material required for the complete construction of the shelter off the ground.
Many designers have mocked me in the past in relation to the small size of the dwelling but as you should well know housing construction cost more by the square meter or square foot.
The other aspect that will make this house so cheap is the "No Greed" principle of Camotor. Camotor is looking at the supply of vast quantities of this type of low cost house and thus is willing to work on a margin of less than $100.00 per house (if the quantity is right).
I would be happy to discuss any aspect of my design with you but first you must become a believer that we as a society need to design in such a way as to help our fellow man and should not be drive by vast architectural masterpieces or by Greed.
Sceptical people will only ensure that these poor homeless victims of circumstance shall remain poor and homeless. My design certainly won't cure their poverty but will sure will cure their homelessness.
Kind Regards,
Peter C
| Description: |
| This is a very simplistic "Artistic Impression" of what the finished product will look like. |
|
Download |
| Filesize:
|
120.98 KB
|
| Downloaded:
|
1319 Time(s)
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dav karwa
Joined: 13 Jul 2004
Posts: 7
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2004 6:53 am Post subject: can't see !! |
|
|
no offence ....but ...
i still don't see ur attachment !!! ( explanatory images of " ur design " )
i'm more interested coz ... i'm a student.
i'd definately like to know more bout ur design .. coz ... india.( tht's where i'm frm ) is really in need of the same.
hoping a positive reply .
_________________
DHAVAL KARWA.
dhaval_karwa@indiatimes.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Peter Camilleri
Joined: 16 Jun 2004
Posts: 15
Location: Sydney, Australia
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2004 4:17 pm Post subject: Low Cost Housing |
|
|
Dear Dav,
Firstly you need to have Adobe to be able to read the document which is attached.
I am happy to help out students in all countries, and I have helped many stedents in India who have completed their final Thesis on Low Cost Housing.
This design is was actually developed on the basis of a tender which I looked at for India. The challenge was to supply a house of slightly small than the one listed and the budget we had to work with was $1,200.00 USD.
Indian Authorities estimate an immediate need for 1,000,000 of these types of shelters and another 1,000,000 in the near future.
As I mentioned before my design although not an architectural masterpiece is safe, dry and secure. Also being constructed off the ground shaded storage is available under the house and a clean flooring is also easy to maintain.
Best Regards,
Peter C
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dav karwa
Joined: 13 Jul 2004
Posts: 7
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2004 4:07 am Post subject: contact ! |
|
|
do have a web link or website !!
ur e-mail id for futher contact.
thank you , sir.
dhaval
_________________
DHAVAL KARWA.
dhaval_karwa@indiatimes.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Peter Camilleri
Joined: 16 Jun 2004
Posts: 15
Location: Sydney, Australia
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2004 3:56 pm Post subject: Housing |
|
|
Dear Donald,
Agreed 100%!!!
Agreed 100%!!!
Last year on this message board I had experienced many comments very similar to you and I have always agreed that this is not the ideal way to cure poverty but as I commented in the past I am open to options. I will bore you with a brief history of how this design came into existence.
This is best answered by a posting that I made last year as follows:
This particular design that I have been working on has been evolving over the last six years and the original system for around 10 years. The first design was based around a 10 metre (33 feet) by 20 metre (66 feet) four bedroom house. I also designed around 2.7 metre (9 foot) ceilings. This is one foot above the standard eight foot ceilings used in Australia. This house was beautiful, spacious and luxurious. While two thirds through this design I travelled through Bangkok, Phuket, Indonesia and Bali. In my travels I found that besides the extraordinary price tag that would be attached to the house I also found that the land allotment sizes that were allocated to these people were also not large enough to build these houses upon. While in Bali I did extensive research among the locals to find out what a suitable size of house would be. In Bali the standard land size allotment is 10 metre by 10 metres and the standard houses that they build are 6 metres by 8 metres.
Please believe me when I tell you that it is not my intention to supply and build ghettos. It is though my intention to supply something that people can afford. Remembering that everything that goes into a house is purchased by the square metre it is simple to understand that the price would also be reflective of the amount of square metres within the house. This system that I have designed is flexible enough to be adapted to any size of house to create as many square metres as you require. Furthermore, a larger house requires a larger block to build this house upon. Unfortunately like building property is also usually purchased by the square metre and thus requiring more money again.
I know that it is a good attitude to take in design that we should look at the ideal sizes and design the cheapest alternative for that size. But what is to happen when the price of that ideal size is the equivalent of two lifetimes’ wages. We are then posed with two alternatives.
1. Wait two lifetimes to build shelter; or
2. Build smaller shelter that people can afford.
I am happy to hear from you in relation to this subject and any sizes of house you could recommend would be appreciated. Finally, please also remember that this is only the first design in a series of designs, which shall incorporate more sizes and prices to match.
After this posting I did more research in more countries and found some interesting facts as follows:
The government in India put together a fairly detailed specification of the type of shelter that it wanted supplied. They wanted a shelter that was 6m x 3m with a verandah that was 1.2m x 6m. These shelters were to be built in groups of fifteen. Each group of fifteen would contain one toilet block and one hand pump station for clean water and washing. This is what prompted my smaller design and as I have stated many times on this discussion board I am happy to design and build around any criteria. I offer the best value for money that is available to the required sizing. you will notice that I actually increased the sheltered and verandah areas from that which was requested. This sizing works much better with the standard sizes of building materials of Australia.
You also refer to shanties that are built at half the price. This is true but these shanties are blown away each time there is a strong gust of wind, they constantly leak and the floors are generally made of dirt which becomes a cesspool of slimy mud.
The shelters that I have been designing pass the 42m/s design category rating, which is one less than used in hurricane areas in Northern Australia. They will not leak and besides being able to be built on sloping sites the floor will always remain dry. This is because the floor is substantially off the ground. In flood areas the pier system enables the house to be built op to 3.5m off the ground.
Believe me I have tried every possible way to think about the preservation of human life and the comfort of the final user but unfortunately we also need to design to $$$.
I also know that in the riches of the western world we are all still unhappy with what we have. We would all like to have a house twice the size that we have with a second and third toilet and a triple garage instead of single but we buy what we can afford. I don't know about where you are from but in Australia currently the acceptable size for a unit has dropped to 60 square metres. This is only 10 square metres bigger that the mid range low cost housing option that I am offering.
Your comments and suggestions are always welcomed and appreciated.
Kind Regards,
Peter Camilleri
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Peter Camilleri
Joined: 16 Jun 2004
Posts: 15
Location: Sydney, Australia
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2004 9:00 pm Post subject: Laughable |
|
|
You seem to have all the laughs but not too many answers.
I have previously stated my profit margin that I work on so there are no secretes. I work for a profit. You must be a genius aswell. I'm sure legacy design works for free.
Anyone who thinks that $100.00 a house is too much profit cna rise to the challenge to be it. Anyone who does not believe that a $100.00 profit is all that I make can have these units supplied on an actual cost plus margin basis.
I can assure that the world will never be a better place if we leave it to the mockers instead of the doers. The mockers would do very well to put their strengths into coming up with better ideas rather than mocking the ideas of other people.
There is nothing wrong with constructive critism but I shall not be demoralised for a system which you have no improvements to.
Regards
Peter C
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Peter Camilleri
Joined: 16 Jun 2004
Posts: 15
Location: Sydney, Australia
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 3:50 pm Post subject: Australian materials |
|
|
Dear Donald,
It would seem that we shall never agree!! and we don't need to!!
But I would like to respond to some of the issues that you have raised in your last posting as I think you are totally misunderstanding the concept.
What makes you think that I have made no life cycle analysis of my shelters?
What makes you think that I am using rubbish materials?
What makes you think that these materials have not been tested in Australia?
Infact all materials used in the construction of the shelter are 100% Australian made construction materials that are widely used in all facets of the Australian construction industry. All materials are tried and tested in many industries and many locations throughout Austrlia. All steel products come with a 25 year durability warranty from Bluescope Steel (Formerly BHP Steel). Houses in Australia are only warranted for 7 years and they are many times more expensive than these little shelters.
You also do a quick mathematical calculations on supplying 1,000,000 shelters. This is great but you have not looked at the expenses that need to come out of supplying these shelters. I supply a technical crew to educate and train construction crews in the building of the system. I monitor quality of construction and provide design support. The facts are that what I supply is a total service to suit the requirements of a particular area of need.
Let me run some quick numbers past you:
· If an area needs 1,000,000 shelters and they want them built in a two year period.
· You need to build 500,000 per year.
· Which equates to 10,000 per week.
· Three men crews can build one of these shelters (complete) in a week.
· This equates to 30,000 men working on the construction of these shelters.
· This equates 10,000 supervisors, which need to be trained and 20,000 unskilled labourers working with them.
· Someone has to provide this training and in all my proposals locals are trained to construct their own habitats so that you are not only housing the many but also leaving some skills behind.
Also my $100.00 was not a fixed margin and I am open to all reasonable options.
I recognise the fact that you have raised that I have not even scratched the surface in relation to low cost housing. I also realise that in another 10 years of research and development I will still not have scratched the surface, but I'm working on it.
You also raise the ideas of why I have not tested this model in my country. This is because the people of Australia are greedy like most other western nations and are not willing to live in anything, which does not have vast expanses of space. Infact even our homeless are not willing to leave the cities to where land is available to build these types of structures.
I don't really know what results you are looking for in these products but I am happy to discuss any of them with you.
Finally I still have not heard any of your suggestions on how we could better solve the problem.
Regards,
Peter C
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Peter Camilleri
Joined: 16 Jun 2004
Posts: 15
Location: Sydney, Australia
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 6:26 pm Post subject: Thanks |
|
|
Thank you for you advise.
I look one step further than "knowing what you don't know" and I believe that true intelligence is in knowing where you can find information on what you would like to know.
Eg.
I am a builder that can neither design great architectural masterpieces nor have the ability to do complex engineering calculations to certify a design but I have built great buildings which are both architectural masterpieces and grand engineering feats all by knowing where to find the knowledge required to achieve the objective of the project.
I shall read a book by your suggested author and see if I can be further enlightened.
Thanks
Peter C
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
VWall
Joined: 02 Aug 2004
Posts: 17
Location: Phoenix, AZ USA
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2004 4:37 am Post subject: |
|
|
I have looked at a few "low cost housing" presentations, and most of them suffer from what we might call "unclear on the concept". The usual approach is for some designer to show a design that illustrates how clever he is. The design is "low cost" as the designer figures it, but often foreign to the culture in which it would be used. Your post and beam design is in fact one of the low cost methods used by a lot of people. But a lot of people don't have access to posts or beams. Those materials would have to be shipped in, raising the cost. And the wood might not be appropriate to the area. The plywood floors are low cost, but plywood falls apart when exposed to weather, unless it is the more expensive exterior plywood, which raises the cost.
The fallacy of your design is that you have approached the project backwards. You propose to design a house with no attention to the user's needs or access to materials, get some third party to pay for it, and then deliver the materials to people who may not be able to use them as you assumed they would. Many groups have put up true low cost housing, but they always did it by first visiting the potential occupants to determine their needs and abilities, and then designing something to use local materials in traditional arrangements. Rammed earth is often the material of choice, even though wealthier people shudder at the thought. Rammed earth takes a lot of labor, but the material is free. In Iraq they are building quake resistant houses with styrofoam and concrete, both available from nearby countries, to replace adobe houses that have fallen apart. An important aspect of keeping costs down is that the family members can do the construction work themselves, without much training.
Any "low cost housing" design that does not specify where it is to be built or who it is for is just a designer's attempt to show off his cleverness.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Peter Camilleri
Joined: 16 Jun 2004
Posts: 15
Location: Sydney, Australia
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2004 6:05 pm Post subject: Low Cost Housing |
|
|
Dear VWall,
I use the term "unclear on the concept" very loosely in this posting. To explain the system totally is not something I pan to do in this forum. Although you do raise an interisting point in relation to local construction methods that I would like to discuss.
In you reply you state that I have attacked my "project backwards". I put it to you that if we just want "to use local materials in traditional arrangements" then we are not really adding any value to the project.
My post and beam design is not actually "timber" as you state in your reply it is actually galvanised steel.
Rammed earth is a great material of choice but again with this material still leaking into the shelter and being built on dirt floors does not really achieve anything. Furthermore we do not need to go into these countries and teach them how to build shitty rammed earth structures with leaves and recycled plastic as a roof.
You mention the construction work in Iraq being built from styrofoam and concrete to be Quake resistant. I was involved in some of the reconstruction process for the rebuilding of BAM city in nearby Iran and believe me in my research it was the promotion of the "use of local materials in traditional arrangements" that had caused the death of 40,000 people originally. So what makes you think that we should be promoting the use of traditional material in a traditional arrangement.
And finally you accusation that a l"ow cost housing system that does not specify where it is for is merely an attempt to show off his cleverness". i ofcourse do not presume that I am or would ever be as clever as an American cab driver that is a part time rocket scientist. I do although state the low cost housing is not rocket science.
The formula is simple. Give people in poor countries something that is better than what they have. If you read the previous postings you woould also have noted that I provide training for pepole to build theire own shelters as a community. And the machinery to produce the steelwork can be shipped to the country of need to produce their own materials.
I put it to you "Sir" that cleverness is not someone like myself that is trying to improve the state of poorer people but someone like yourself that thinks the Iraq example is not an American Ideology where they level a city and create a poor ad empoverished people that they can force their products onto in the fashion that they want to. Ghee this is much better for the people.
Why don't you try and add something to this discussion rather than merely promoting leaving these poor people as they are.
Regards,
Peter C
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
pilsbury
Joined: 09 Oct 2004
Posts: 2
Location: uk
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 09, 2004 9:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
 peter c. read your article with great interest and would be greatful
for progress reports as the project goes forward.
is there a web site that can be visited? keep working on the ideas.it might not be perfect yet but it is only the begining. mighty oaks from little acorns do grow
_________________
time flies like an arrow
fruit flies like a banana |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
SDR
millennium club
Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Posts: 1712
Location: San Francisco
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2004 10:55 pm Post subject: Peter C |
|
|
Mr Camilleri -- I hope the posts you have encountered here do not originate in my native country; I would be ashamed to admit it if they did. With "friends" like this, who needs enemies? You may take some comfort in knowing that blowhards of this sort are surely motivated by something other than an effort to help direct and correct any enterprise; the naked animus expressed points to some defect that has nothing to do with your efforts. Your (mostly) civil replies and efforts to further explain and defend yourself have been met onlty with more of the same vituperation. You have my sympathy.
SDR
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
pilsbury
Joined: 09 Oct 2004
Posts: 2
Location: uk
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 11, 2004 12:41 am Post subject: |
|
|
peter c. having had a look around on the web and came across this
http://www.warnerasmus.com/projects/weehouse.htm
wondered if it might be of some interest to your project
_________________
time flies like an arrow
fruit flies like a banana |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Peter Camilleri
Joined: 16 Jun 2004
Posts: 15
Location: Sydney, Australia
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 11, 2004 8:32 pm Post subject: Low Cost Housing |
|
|
Dear Gents
It is comments like the ones you have made that give inspiration to people like me. I am not a big corporation nor am I a greedy man. I just want to make a living and help at the same time. I wish I was rich enough to provide all the housing to poor countries myself but that is never going to happen.
If you all take the time to read the other postings of my critics you will see what type of people they are for yourself.
Regardless of thier comments it will not deter the path I have worked out for myself. I will supply low cost housing systems and I will do it at an extremely low cost.
Once again thank you for your kind comments.
Peter Camilleri
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
blogger
del.icio.us
digg
slashdot
