|
View previous topic :: View next topic
|
| Author |
Message |
Mary1
Joined: 15 Jun 2009
Posts: 2
|
 Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:59 am Post subject: House Designers |
    |
|
I've recently been looking around for quotes to have a 7m x 9m single storey extension designed and put through planning permission and building regs.
I found this site http://jrpcad.co.uk/default.aspx thanks to a post on here and they have quoted me £599 for the design work and any potential structural fees, Is this good??? I'ts the cheapest I've found so far,
They are coming to meet me on Wednesday to have a look and to give me some advice
Thanks
Mary1 - Derby |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
phansford
Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 832
Location: SW Ohio
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 7:32 am Post subject: |
|
|
Mary -
The fee for design work can vary from location to location. In American dollars 599 GBP is $980.00 US (Roughly). Based on an hourly rate of $75 per hour ( 45.90 GBP per hour), this would equate to about 12 to 13 hours of my time.
So you need to ask yourself, can someone actually perform all of the design work necessary for your project in 12 hours. (I seriously doubt it). I typically take between 24-40 hours to do a room addition of this size. But we also don't provide the minimum set of drawings required to get a permit. We want to provide enough detail that the contractor fully understands the work necessary for the project.
The Drawings are part of your CONTRACT with the contractor. If it is not on the drawings..... he might argue he didn't bid it.
I would caution you about contracting design services solely based on the fee. You need to factor in other issues such as the quality of the work, the personally of the designer, recommendations from past clients and so on.
There is a British forum member who visits and posts here frequently. They may be of greater assistance. You might send them a PM.
Good luck. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
JRPcad1
Joined: 16 Jun 2009
Posts: 2
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 1:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
phansford,
Mary mentioned to me that she found me on here, in all honesty it does take me around 12-15 hours to finish all of the work required to meet planning permission and building regulations standards (this normally includes time for surveying and amendments).
I'd honestly say that my work is to (in my opinion) an average level of detail, but easily good enough to aquire planning permission and building control approval (which are fairly strict in the UK).
Allthough £599 does seem cheap, I have found people who are willing to do the work for people for £299 I even had one guy telling me he had found someone to do his work for £50 and would I better that? I laughed and told him I'm not prepared to work for nothing... and when the guy screws up the drawings come and talk to me. I think the recession has allowed alot of cowboys into the industry!!!
I'd like to think that I offer a happy median to my clients, they won't get the massive level of detail some architects go to (hence sometimes their massive fees), and not that cheap that I'll do a shoddy rushed job that would generally waste money and time in the long run. I rarely get questions from the builders who work from my drawings, so I presume they are happy with the detailing.
Look forward to meeting you tomorrow Mary1
Best Regards
James |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kevin
Site Admin
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 1347
Location: Eugene, Oregon
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 2:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
JRPcad, faking a two-party conversation which is really just with yourself is really pathetic online behavior.
What's more, it is deception, an abuse of the good will of other forum members, spam, and against our forum usage guidelines.
If you want to create theater, please label it as such. Then again, if it is all about self-promotion and not about contributing to the community... then please, don't even bother. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
phansford
Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 832
Location: SW Ohio
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 3:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Kevin wrote: | JRPcad, faking a two-party conversation which is really just with yourself is really pathetic online behavior.
What's more, it is deception, an abuse of the good will of other forum members, spam, and against our forum usage guidelines.
If you want to create theater, please label it as such. Then again, if it is all about self-promotion and not about contributing to the community... then please, don't even bother. |
Kevin - Thanks keeping an eye on things here. I certainly appreciate the hard work you do here to keep the forums as open and clean as possible. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lekizz
millennium club
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1212
Location: UK
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 5:06 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | There is a British forum member who visits and posts here frequently. They may be of greater assistance. You might send them a PM. |
Haha, I'm amused to see my misspent years on this forum have elevated me to architectural ambassador for the UK. I'd better lodge my application immediately to become RIBA president 
No doubt these cut-price business models such as JRPcad will become more and more prevalent during the forthcoming years of the 'credit crunch'. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
phansford
Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 832
Location: SW Ohio
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 5:59 am Post subject: |
|
|
| lekizz wrote: | | Quote: | | There is a British forum member who visits and posts here frequently. They may be of greater assistance. You might send them a PM. |
Haha, I'm amused to see my misspent years on this forum have elevated me to architectural ambassador for the UK. I'd better lodge my application immediately to become RIBA president
No doubt these cut-price business models such as JRPcad will become more and more prevalent during the forthcoming years of the 'credit crunch'. |
 Didn't mean to throw you under the bus
But I certainly have no idea what design services and fees are in the UK.
We still have the occasional "draftsman" working at the lumber yard that will do a set of permit drawings for $200 - $500 (don't make me look up the currency converter again....please!!!). Or the "draftsman" who is moonlighting for the cost of a new electronic gadget. But people get what they pay for....
We choose not to compete with such people and wish clients all the luck... they'll need it |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Checkpoint43
Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 180
Location: Lexington, VA
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 10:11 am Post subject: |
|
|
"You get what you pay for."
That statement always bothered me.
Mainly because so many people believe it.
Does a higher price mean a better product or service?
This concept has worked for Starbucks'.
But in a side by side taste test, a cup of coffee from McDonald's won by a landslide.
Just read, Death To All Sacred Cows by David Bernstein
and, Myths Lies Ans Downright Stupidity by John Stossel
And raise your prices so people will think you're better than the competition.
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
phansford
Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 832
Location: SW Ohio
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 12:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I think you are seriously missing the point. It is not about inflating one's fee.
Surely you feel that you provide a better product for your clients than someone at the lumberyard doing a minimal set of drawings for a couple of sawbucks.
Certainly you understand that while the $500 set of drawing might get a building permit - they probably aren't going to have expended time in design or in detailing the building to the extent that you do.
Cost is also = to service. Someone charging $500 is not going to provide the level of service necessary for a typical project, or better stated, the level of service expected by most clients.
FWIW - My fees vary based on the level of service requested by the client. Some people might only want the minimal permit drawings and want to work on the details with their contractor - knowing they could pay for items not included in the bid. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Checkpoint43
Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 180
Location: Lexington, VA
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 2:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
A good architect is worth every penny. I will agree on that.
But what if someone doesn't have the overhead expenses to cover?
Naturally, their prices would be lower.
You could buy a large printer for $40,000 or more, and roll that cost into your design fees, making the customer ultimately pay for it.
Or, you could just have prints made at a print shop for much less.
The extra cost has nothing to do with the level of service.
But for some reason, people equate price with quality. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Checkpoint43
Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 180
Location: Lexington, VA
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 2:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
And I hope you aren't saying you would shirk off on your design if a customer negoriated and brought your prices down.
That would be wrong.
"You get what you pay for", so I'm not going to give you my all. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
starkca3
Joined: 10 Jul 2008
Posts: 174
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 10:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Kevin wrote: | JRPcad, faking a two-party conversation which is really just with yourself is really pathetic online behavior.
What's more, it is deception, an abuse of the good will of other forum members, spam, and against our forum usage guidelines.
If you want to create theater, please label it as such. Then again, if it is all about self-promotion and not about contributing to the community... then please, don't even bother. |
ahhh this is hilarious
_________________
busy~ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
phansford
Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 832
Location: SW Ohio
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 6:28 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Checkpoint43 wrote: | A good architect is worth every penny. I will agree on that.
But what if someone doesn't have the overhead expenses to cover?
Naturally, their prices would be lower.
You could buy a large printer for $40,000 or more, and roll that cost into your design fees, making the customer ultimately pay for it.
Or, you could just have prints made at a print shop for much less.
The extra cost has nothing to do with the level of service.
But for some reason, people equate price with quality. |
First - its not an architect verse residential design thing......
Printing is a reimbursable expense. You can either choose to have in-house printing capabilities or use an outside source. It typically is not considered overhead included in one's design fee. When I had a blueprint machine - I charged the same for the print as if I had sent it out... the difference was I was making some profit of the reimbursable rather than the local printer.
Overhead is going to include rent, phone, insurance, utilities, computers.... and so on. This basically means as one's overhead increases, they typically will need to pursue projects that support the overhead.
| Checkpoint43 wrote: | And I hope you aren't saying you would shirk off on your design if a customer negoriated and brought your prices down.
That would be wrong.
"You get what you pay for", so I'm not going to give you my all. |
Three things affect price - scope of services, schedule, and fee. If one changes - the other two change (or should). Therefore - if your fee changes, so should the scope of services. A good business person is not providing the same service for $500 that they will provide for $5,000.
However, there are people out there who will cut their fee to get work and then be in a position that their expenses exceed the fee or drastically cut into their abilities to pay for overhead. We are seeing this in the construction side of things as contractors are cutting their fees to get work then running out of money before the project is complete.... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
csintexas
millennium club
Joined: 06 Feb 2006
Posts: 2174
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 6:54 am Post subject: |
|
|
 that was funny JRPcad1
Well, I think about everyone over the age of 20 has figured out that you don't always get what you pay for.
I just bought a mandolin (very slightly used) for about 39% of it's new cost
_________________
-Chris Stewart
http://bcshdb.blogspot.com >
The B/CS Home Design Blog |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Checkpoint43
Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 180
Location: Lexington, VA
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
phansford wrote | Quote: | | A good business person is not providing the same service for $500 that they will provide for $5,000. |
Please explain how you can charge two drastically different prices for the same project.
What does the customer get by paying $4500 more?
Do you bring them milk and cookies while they look at the blueprints?
I don't understand.
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
blogger
del.icio.us
digg
slashdot
