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John DeFazio
Joined: 14 Apr 2005
Posts: 9
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 Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 12:46 pm Post subject: Font Match for AutoCadd |
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Hi Everyone,
Just a quick question. Does any body have good lead on where to find a Mac OS (PowerCadd compat) architectural font to match the old AutoCadd Archstyle.shx.
I have always used Graphite, but am working on a set of interiors and the Architect uses AutoCadd and they want a dead on match for their documents.
Attached is a pdf of the Font appearance. Note to curvy "w" bottoms.
Thanks
John
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MikeCharek
Joined: 14 Apr 2004
Posts: 180
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| Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 5:53 am Post subject: |
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That may be tough. You could try posting your question at the Archicad board at
http://archicad-talk.graphisoft.com/
There are occasional font questions there. The architectural font that seems to find most favor is MrHand, but that's not an exact match to what you show. We used to use something called Architext to get close to Autocad's City Blueprint, but it's not supported in recent OS's.
Here's a thought: could you do your drawings in the usual way, then subcontract a conversion to Autocad by someone who has that font? Maybe even one of those overseas outfits who offer work for cheap $$.
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phansford
Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 832
Location: SW Ohio
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| Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 6:09 am Post subject: |
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John -
Not sure if you are trying to match the ACAD font for conversion purposes, or you just like the style.
I recently purchased several of the Frank Lloyd Wright fonts from P22 Foundry for my residential work. I have been very happy with the results. Terra Cotta and Midway - I like Terra Cotta the most.
Not that it matters much as my M/P/E has their own stale text standards - but their Gears - so what do I expect :lol;
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huc
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 683
Location: ::caddpower.com:: (Arvada, CO)
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| Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 7:55 am Post subject: |
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Getting an exact match will be extremely difficult - cruising the various online font houses will be the best way to go. Another option for an *exact* match is to have a font made -- that's likely the only sure fired bet. That would allow for your PCD printed drawings to match the ACD printed drawings but if the files are translated they'll still need to do a drawing wide font replacement upon opening the file in ACD.
Frankly I find it interesting that an exact match is even required and I question the logic as to why. When we drew by hand drawings within the same office were never an *exact* match -- ever. Hand drawings across multiple consultants were even less likely to be close to matching. We had some firms ask us for exact matches when computer drawings first started and the above was enough to get it down to a reasonable request to 'just be close' which seemed fair.
_________________
I hope that helps
Cheers
Brian |
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John DeFazio
Joined: 14 Apr 2005
Posts: 9
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| Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 3:37 pm Post subject: AutoCadd Fonts Lost in Translation |
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Thanks all,
I am doing all the interiors to a large Modern house... and it is part of larger Design/Development Construction Doc set that the firm that I am consulting is contracted to do. They would like to have seamless looking set do to their office standards even though they are printing from the pdf files that I send them.
In true PowerCadd fashion, they can't believe the high quality of the graphics that I am able to generate so quickly... but they would like it if the fonts matched theirs produced on AutoCadd.
It is funny about the "exact match" idea though. Like many of us here, I started using "architectural" fonts on my computer documents so that I could supplement notes on the printed documents using my own hand-lettering. Now this has lead to the synthetic handmade quality is now something that has to be as "perfect" as Helvetica or Palatino-- even though its imperfection was its asset.
Thanks again for all your suggestions. I think I will just use my "Graphite" font and then experiment with translating my documents back into their AutoCadd files so they can have their stinking fonts. Maybe we can even capture that incredibly flat-unreadability AutoCadd quality in the the process. Oh goody!
Thanks again
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raleighross
Joined: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 393
Location: Raleigh, NC
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| Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 1:26 pm Post subject: Re: AutoCadd Fonts Lost in Translation |
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| John DeFazio wrote: | They would like to have seamless looking set do to their office standards even though they are printing from the pdf files that I send them.
In true PowerCadd fashion, they can't believe the high quality of the graphics that I am able to generate so quickly... but they would like it if the fonts matched theirs produced on AutoCadd.
It is funny about the "exact match" idea though.ca or Palatino-- even though its imperfection was its asset.
Thanks again for all your suggestions. I think I will just use my "Graphite" font and then experiment with translating my documents back into their AutoCadd files so they can have their stinking fonts. Maybe we can even capture that incredibly flat-unreadability AutoCadd quality in the the process. |
The offices I work with own a copy of AutoCAD LT and we just use the font that comes with that. Hint hint.
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huc
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 683
Location: ::caddpower.com:: (Arvada, CO)
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| Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 4:21 pm Post subject: Re: AutoCadd Fonts Lost in Translation |
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| raleighross wrote: | | The offices I work with own a copy of AutoCAD LT and we just use the font that comes with that. Hint hint. |
That trick can work, but not for SHX files unless there is some conversion utility or feature within the App that will convert to TTF
| Quote: | | match the old AutoCadd Archstyle.shx. |
However, I remember doing some research on SHX to TTF conversion a few years ago and vaguely recall a utility out there that did convert SHX to TTF (true Type). Don't recall what platform it ran on or how much it cost -- nor whether it worked well or at all. However that conversion, assuming it works, would be another option to having a font made and get the desired exact match.
_________________
I hope that helps
Cheers
Brian |
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Matt
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 525
Location: Sterling, Virginia
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| Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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Why don't you change the font away from that unbelievably anachronistic pseudo-handlettered font, and send them the font files and they can do the same. (autocad can handle real fonts now). It's time for them to update their standards. And the project would be seamless....
<rant>
Some projects appropriately include a specification sheet, or a short list of general requirements. Place these elements of your documents on the first sheet (or on the Cover Sheet if you have one). This will have the benefit of them being unavoidable, and they cannot be ignored without consequence.
These Specifications should be edited in non-CAD software, and placed in the drawings as a pdf. Do not use ALL CAPS in your specifications, they are lenghthy, and ALL CAPS typing is difficult to read -- your eye cannot grasp the silhouettes of words and must work much harder to make sense of the glyphs when WRITING IS PLACED IN ALL CAPS. Use an easy-to-read font, such as are used in newspapers or magazines, which are designed for that purpose. Do not use a font which mimics architectural hand lettering:
Examples (black hat)
THESE SPECIFICATIONS SHOULD BE EDITED IN NON-CAD SOFTWARE, AND PLACED IN THE DRAWINGS AS A PDF. DO NOT USE ALL CAPS IN YOUR SPECIFICATIONS, THEY ARE LENGHTHY, AND ALL CAPS TYPING IS DIFFICULT TO READ -- YOUR EYE CANNOT GRASP THE SILHOUETTES OF WORDS AND MUST WORK MUCH HARDER TO MAKE SENSE OF THE GLYPHS WHEN WRITING IS PLACED IN ALL CAPS. USE AN EASY-TO-READ FONT, SUCH AS ARE USED IN NEWSPAPERS OR MAGAZINES, WHICH ARE DESIGNED FOR THAT PURPOSE. DO NOT USE A FONT WHICH MIMICS ARCHITECTURAL HAND LETTERING:
"Handlettered" fonts are not used by serious people. There was a time when they soared on the wings of style, but their glory has faded. These fonts are not cute; they are not cool; and they are not ‘architectural' either. They are 8-track cassette tapes. Throw them away and do not keep a copy, burn them. If you insist on using them, please finish the job properly and print your drawings in white on a cobalt blue background. It's a real blue-print, get it? And put a T-square on your business card at an angle next to your name, printed in blue with lines that have the corners overlapping. Cutting edge stuff.
You’re in the design field. Stay current with design. Stop saying the same things, doing the same things, and thinking the same things. Experiment. Seriously and with purpose, not as an act of rebellion, as an act of investigation. If you use that font, when I look at your drawing it occurs to me that it’s possible that an actual thought hasn’t passed between your ears since 1988. That was thirty years ago. Oh, you’re having one now, are you? I’m gratified, I hope you have many more. Never use that idiotic font.
</rant>
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phansford
Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 832
Location: SW Ohio
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| Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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Matt -
John stated he needs to font as to match the request of a client (an architect using ACAD) - so why the rant.
And your comments about "hand-lettered" fonts is a matter of opinion. But then again maybe you're using Helvetica or some other font from 1988 and think you're cutting edge.
BTW - Your comments on specs - There is no reason to paste a PDF of specs on your page.... talk about 1988. We do our initial edit in a word processing, then cut/paste into Advance Text. This allows us to make minor editing changes to the specs on the drawings. Much cleaner, much faster and uses today's technology.
I actually use a font called "Technical" on our commercial work that I have had for years. Not really Hand-writing in style, but architectural - in my opinion. Which is maybe the point here.... everyone has their opinion and that does not make everyone else wrong.
Maybe you would feel better after a nap 
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Matt
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 525
Location: Sterling, Virginia
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| Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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why the rant? s'been quiet around here, and it occurred to me that the real solution to the "problem" of non-matching fonts was due to unquestioned prejudices rather than intentioned decision-making.
If they like the way his drawings look so much, perhaps they might want to consider making theirs look better; they can do quite a bit of improving right in autoCad, if they learn to pay attention.
Handlettered fonts to me are identical to the plastic woodgrain they put in chrysler products, a painfully transparent reference to something they will never be.
If your primary goal is communication, in your drawings you will want to make every decision in such a way as that it supports that goal. Hand lettering on drawings was a makeshift solution to a problem that the computer has rendered moot.
you're free to choose the aesthetic that your judgement prefers. Drawings done with different fonts are interesting to look at and evaluate, I always enjoy seeing examples of different offices styles.
The solution I offered would result in the goal being met, at a cost of some context.
In terms of specs on the drawings, for continuity, I think it is dangerous practice to edit spec text inside powercadd drawings, not because of software stability, but just that I want to keep my current, accurate spec text files in an easy-to-get-to place.
Didn't mean to rock the boat too hard, just putting my views out there AT THE TOP OF MY LUNGS.
;)
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phansford
Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 832
Location: SW Ohio
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| Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 5:56 am Post subject: |
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I still go back into the Masters and update them or edit them as I see fit. But for typos, simple product change on a specific project - editing on the drawing is the way to go. No different than editing a standard detail or general notes that you want to modify for a specific project application.
I know few people were complaining about Advance Text - but I love it. I have no problem controlling placement as some have mentioned. I select Advance Text in the side menu, then create a text box and off I go. I can edit/adjust the margins or side of the text box in the edit mode of Advance Text.
I have to agree - some fonts do not work well for large amounts of text and I also prefer standard typing (not all caps) for long text boxes.
I think one of the things you're probably complaining about is that CAD /Drafting standards get set in large firms. And Principal see no reason to update the Standard. While smaller firms seem to bounce around with each CAD operator doing his own thing. You have to have standards to not only control quality but also for risk management. I recommend reading The E Myth Revisited. A friend of mine, who is in regional management for one of the large national insurance companies, said this book is required reading for their local agents.
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paulprd
Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 77
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| Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 1:07 am Post subject: |
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This may be usefull. Bill gave me this snippet a couple of months ago. Not exactly what you are asking but maybe give it a try and see what happens.
The design of Windows Helvetica and Macintosh Helvetica is remarkably different at the font design level.
It is much better to use Arial in PowerCADD when special characters are in text to be translated to dwg. The width ratio, paragraph line spacing and line breaks are simply better using Arial and special characters. Arial is less likely to have ‘drop down’ characters after dwg translation. Helvetica will often ‘drop down’ when used with the following characters (/ \ “ ‘ ( ) and others). The foot and inch symbols are frequently used in drawings. Parentheses are often used in ConDocs. Special characters modify paragraph line spacing in Windows. Special characters do not modify line spacing in Macintosh. Line spacing is modified in a manner similar to placing super or sub script in text.
Programming solutions to accommodate differences of system level font design are impossible. Use Arial for higher fidelity translation.
Advanced text is used in all versions of 8 dwg translations to take advantage of fractional text point sizes. Almost all text from dwg is fractional or uneven point size.
cheers
Paul
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