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jahbsu13
Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Posts: 6
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 Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 7:29 pm Post subject: Fees? |
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Hello,
I am unsure of how to go about figure fees for services as I am not yet liscensed (but will begin taking tests soon) and I am working on a project located in Manteno Illinois. The project is 3 townhomes with 3 units in each and I am unsure of figuring fees for the project? Can anyone help me with this issue as I am sure it will continue to be something I will struggle with?
Thank you in advance.
Jeff |
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Madimel
Joined: 06 Feb 2008
Posts: 109
Location: Scottsdale, Arizona
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| Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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It might help if you included your scope of service. Here are a list of items to consider:
How desperate do you need this job (what is the profit margin you're targeting) or are you moonlighting? What are the expectations of the clients (do they expect you to jump at every phone call?), etc. |
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jahbsu13
Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 5:12 am Post subject: |
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I did not think of mentioning that, thank you. But I am moonlighting and he knows it and he doesnt expect me to hae everything yesterday and is in no real rush. As far as I know, I am expected to do a complete set of construction documents for him (electrical, HVAC, Plumbig and architectural) but not including a great number of details or wall sections as he is a builder as well. He is looking for some pretty generic drawings so he is able to build the building as he is expecting. My undestanding is in the area, he could go to a draftsman or an architect to do the drawings as I dont think he needs stamped drawings. I am really only thinking to get enough to cover the cost of some of my previous credit card debt ($7500 or so) and will be looking to keep him as a client long term by not overcharging him and hoping he sends me referrals as well.
Thank you again for your help. |
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jahbsu13
Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 5:15 am Post subject: |
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| also, would it be considered bad practice to try and contact a couple of the local architects in the area? I work mainly in Chicago and live in Manteno where the project is to be located. |
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jahbsu13
Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 5:19 am Post subject: |
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| Not sure either if it came accross real clear, but there are 3 lots of land, all side by side and I will be doing the bui;ding 1 time, but showing it on all 3 parcels of land, as I am sure this also helps determine the cost? |
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Madimel
Joined: 06 Feb 2008
Posts: 109
Location: Scottsdale, Arizona
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| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 7:49 am Post subject: |
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It is not inappropriate to talk to other architects, early in my career, I've consulted my mentor on many occasion. This will be a good exercise for you to practice drafting up an agreement. Take extra precaution and spend some time on the contract. This will dictate your responsibilities and how and how much you will be paid.
Now regarding the fee structure: calculate how many hours it will take you to complete the project, assign a value to each hour of work then apply a percentage of "profit". That is usually a good place to start, but you may need to adjust it for different reasons. For example, should your number come in too high, you may lose the project. Since it is your first project, you may consider setting up the contract as a T&M (Time and Material). This is the part of the practice that Architecture School don't cover much of, so have fun.
Expectations of the Client:
Do you have any experience working with this client before? My assumption is that he will be expecting you to not charge for the other two lots since it is essentially the same design. I have never worked on a project that is in "no real rush". Make sure you know what you're getting yourself into. Worst thing you want to have happen is to have him calling you at your regular job chasing you down for drawings.
Now the most important part in all of this (and you probably know this already). You need to verify whether the State Law allows you to practice in this capacity. Make sure you did not misrepresent yourself as an architect. |
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jahbsu13
Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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Well, to start, he is actually my new Landlord and he does know I am not yet an Architect and I will be taking the exam soon and he is fully aware of it. I believe he is looking at it the same way you mentioned, 1 project not 3 and that is mostly how I am going about it as well. I agree with you that school doesn't teach much of anything about pricing and such.
The "no real rush" is him not being in a hurry, he owned the lots for about 8 years now and had some drawings in the works before, but was not very enthusiastic about so he never followed through. When we met, I asked him about the construction in the area and told him I work for an architect and hope to get my license soon. When I signed the agreement for the apartment, he asked me about doing some drawings for him.
This is also the first time I am working with him but I believe if I do the job I believe I can and he likes, I believe he will come back to me for other projects as well so I am not really afraid to give him a lower number then I could possibly make in hopes of further opportunities, but I don't want to be too low and he expects the same from here on, even once I may realize it is a lower number.
Thank you for the advice, and I will contact some of the local architects and see what kind of advice they can give me.
Thank you again,
Jeff |
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teamjdc
Joined: 25 Oct 2007
Posts: 145
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| Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Illinois law will not allow you to do the project. |
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jahbsu13
Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 6:49 am Post subject: |
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| Thank you for clarifying that for me. I was in the middle of trying to figure out for sure if it would be possible or not. |
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mx2
Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 1819
Location: Miami, Florida
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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I have done quite a few side jobs and typically because of my relationships with a few architects I asked them to be the architect-of-record and I am essentially draftsman/project manager...the money flows through me. I clarify with all my clients (as I too am about to sit for my exam) that I am not licensed and that I am working with an architect and I give them all of his and my information up front and to date I have had no problems. It is a good work experience as well because I "practice" being an architect while still under the direct supervision of a licensed architect...even though it's come to a point where the architect barely does anything but check the drawings just before he signs and seals. Essentially he gets paid for his license.
That said, my fees are based on hourly calculations that I predict I will need to do the job and then add a profit. If I know I will be spending 80 hours then it's 80 x whatever fee (usually between $50 to $100 per hour). Then I adjust based on the scope (some small jobs would have too high a fee calculated like this whereas the opposite is true for larger jobs...I have found). Then I ask for a retainer and final payment due upon delivery of signed and sealed drawings. Then it's on me to get them through permitting no matter what it takes. Once it gets permitted, I'm done.
On larger more serious side jobs I have an architect employ me either as a 1099 (sub) or an employee...
But be warned, moonlighting is frowned upon by firms who hire you full time. Do not use their software or plotters nor company time. It is unethical really. But some of us need the extra cash and it's not a continuous thing. If it were....I'd start my own company.
Strangely, I currently have 5 side jobs and project managing 5 full time projects at work as well...I'm pooped. It's a perfect storm...and it's not easy. It's part of the reason I haven't been online for a while and probably won't be around much for a while...
Regardless, good luck, be careful and be straight forward.
mx2.5
_________________
*Art of Architecture: The conscious use of skill and creative imagination in the production of an aesthetic building.
*Science of Architecture: The calculated use of technical skill and knowledge in the construction of a functional building. |
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