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singleye
Joined: 03 Feb 2006
Posts: 62
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 Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 8:36 pm Post subject: question about window location and indoor light distribution |
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just read Louis Kahn's writing on light:
"large window in the center of wall produces glare( eyes have to choose between brilliant glass and dark backgrounds) throws light on to floor instead of penetrate into room. and fails to illuminate work surface winthin.
and "large window should be placed high in the room, against ceiling, light penetrate deeply and evenly"
is it true? high windows provide better light? large windows should be placed high?
and can any one recommend a book about window location, size in indoor light quanlity? ( no calculation, just normal sense)
thank you.
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mx2
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Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 1957
Location: Miami, Florida
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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This isn't about lighting per se,...particularly with so much technology out there that can artificially provide plenty of lumens to meet even minimum code requirements (joke).
This is exactly about common sense. Begin with the image he portrays so beautifully...imagine the bright over-exposed light beaming through a window opening centered on a wall that is mostly dark. Why would it attact so much of your attention? Because it's at eye level. It's not comfortable to be angling your sightline above a few degrees for any period of time, so if glazed openigns were raised as Kahn suggests then this would eliminate the direct glare issue. Then his argument is that because illumination is raised higher above finsihed floor, then the rays of light diffuse more and thus illuminate more generally. There's nothing secret about this idea, nor does it mean this applies to every scenario. But more importantly it's a great demonstration of how our masters would truly analyze and work through each problem with care and sensitivity that is generally lacking in todays profession.
mx2.5
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*Art of Architecture: The conscious use of skill and creative imagination in the production of an aesthetic building.
*Science of Architecture: The calculated use of technical skill and knowledge in the construction of a functional building. |
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lekizz
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Joined: 11 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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High level windows and roof lights provide considerably more efficient natural daylighting than side windows. After all, daylight comes from the sun and the sky, which are generally above you 
If you don't want all the science mumbo jumbo, you'll just have to take my word for it!!
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mx2
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Location: Miami, Florida
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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It's not precise to say it's more efficient...it is indeed spread out more but it's also weaker in lumens per sq. ft. Lower windows provide more natural light near the window. It's simply a question of what is the designer providing the space for and what is more appropriate in that specific case.
mx2.5
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*Art of Architecture: The conscious use of skill and creative imagination in the production of an aesthetic building.
*Science of Architecture: The calculated use of technical skill and knowledge in the construction of a functional building. |
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SDR
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Joined: 02 Oct 2004
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Location: San Francisco
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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Geez, guys.
Windows placed close to an interior surface that is roughly perpendicular to the "window" wall will receive light from the window and reflect it into the space. The perpendicular surface can be the floor, a wall, or (as Kahn was probably thinking) the ceiling.
SDR
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lekizz
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 1:12 am Post subject: |
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Sure, interior and exterior surfaces can be used to reflect light indirectly into a space.
But I don't understand mx's problem with the word 'efficient'. Perhaps 'effective' would meet approval? I've just now grabbed my pocket book "Low Energy Design" (Action Energy) off my shelf; on the subject of "Rooflights" it their main benefits are:
"They face the brightest part of the overcast sky as a consequence they let in three times as much daylight as the equivalent area of vertical glazing"
"The daylight from rooflights is less likely to be shaded by external obstructions, such as trees and other buildings or by internal obstructionssuch as posters stuck to windows or office furniture placed against windows"
"Daylight distribution below roof lights is in the form of a symmetrical pool reducing in illuminance towards the edges"
Though rooflights also present the problem of higher heat gains and heat losses, which have to be taken into consideration in the design.
Obviously high windows/rooflights somewhat restrict the view out of the room and that is an issue that Kahn seems not to address!
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SDR
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 11:43 am Post subject: |
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Not all windows are intended to permit views of the exterior. Kahn in particular fashioned interior space with light, letting light enter and fall onto walls and other interior elements -- memorably, in his First Unitarian Church in Rochester, NY: http://www.brynmawr.edu/Acads/Cities/imgb/imgb3/212f.jpg
But, to answer the poster's original question, no, Kahn's words here are not meant to apply to all large windows, in all situations. We don't know in what context or about which building(s) Kahn was writing. . .
SDR
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csintexas
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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I don't know of any specific books on the subject but I think everything is going to be pretty much common sense and easily observable. The best way to learn to design using natural light is to pay attention to it. Look within your environment. When you go places see how light works. Use your senses to see it's intensity or feel it's warmth. How things reflect from various surfaces. No book will teach you that.
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Chris Stewart
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SDR
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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Well said. There are books that illustrate the principles and effects, of course -- and today's computer models can be lit to automatically (?) show the results of daylight in a space -- but it's absolutely true that examples abound all around us, in buildings we use every day.
The first effect I attempted to describe, above, can be experienced quite easily: just look for a room in which a window is placed against or very near to an interior partition (wall), and see how well-lighted that wall is. Compare to a room in which a window is placed in the middle of a wall, well away from any interior walls.
Then look for the same effect at the ceiling, and at the floor, in other rooms.
The relatively small windows of three-century-old houses in Amsterdam have been shown to admit a remarkable amount of light to their interiors, by way of the white-painted embrasure (necessary because of wall thickness) and by white folding shutters within that embrasure, which reflect light into the space.
SDR
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singleye
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SDR
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not sure of the site conditions of the Esherick house, but many suburban houses require some privacy from neighboring properties. The high windows could be designed with that in mind.
If you look at a lot of modern houses, you see big windows facing the view and, not incidentally, the private portion of the site. Other elevations of the house will have smaller windows or even none at all. Wright's later homes often embody this layout.
Architecture -- buildings -- are not designed in a vacuum (except in early school exercises, perhaps) but respond to every condition of a real-world site and program, if they are to be successful.
SDR
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csintexas
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 2:39 pm Post subject: |
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Also I would say don't avoid books with calculations in them, a lot of normal since is contained in numbers and they are an architects friend. What is good light? How many lumen's does the sun produce on a bright or overcast day? What is good ambient light or good reading light?
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Chris Stewart
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SDR
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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Yes. Light is a fascinating subject, for sure -- one of the most intangible of the visible elements we deal with, more akin to odor or sound in its subtlety and variability. The animal eye is able to adapt to varying light levels to an amazing degree; the difference in lumens between bright sunshine and typical interior lighting is something incredible like 1000%, yet we can easily see in both environments. Anyone who photographs discovers how much more flexible is the eye than the camera.
Of course we have le Corbusier's famous definition: "Architecture is the masterly, correct, and magnificent play of masses brought together in light."
SDR
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