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phansford
Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 534
Location: SW Ohio
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 Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 6:33 am Post subject: |
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| csintexas wrote: | | I'm suddenly experiencing a lot of deja vu like I've read these posts before or something. Could ya'll find another thread for these other subjects please. |
I agree. The issue is we have people basically posting about their product/company/service in threads of value. Personally - if I were Forum Czar - I would move all this crap to a new forum or thread for people to solicit their BS.
| csintexas wrote: | | I wanted to get a builder in the loop early in the project so yesterday I collected all the (144) local builders e-mail address's and sent out an invitation to look at the project and respond if interested. It will be interesting to see what the response is. Hopefully I won't be flooded with calls today. |
This probably wasn't the best idea. No one wants to take a chance on a project with such a large invite list.... chances of getting the project are 1 in 144. Most likely you will get the dregs who can't find work (and there is a reason). Plus - the HBA is not necessarily where you will find the best builders. HBA membership requires you pay your membership dues. Its a meaningless membership. HBA is basically a lobby group and the best builders typically don't attend the monthly meetings. The public thinks that being a member of HBA is meaningful, but you need to educate them. Don't get me wrong, they serve a purpose, but that purpose might be counter to what you want to accomplish.
You need to pre-select builders. Keep it to no more than 4. I personally look for builders who are small, builders who have a skilled labor force. My best builders are finish carpenters by trade and do the work themselves..... they don't subcontract the general construction work. They have come up the ranks of the industry by being skilled labor themselves. They know how building go together and actually know how to operate the nail gun. (Many HBA members were accountants at GM last week and thought they could do some homebuilding ..... okay that's 20 years of pessimism speaking.  )
Overtime, develop a list of builders you like to work with and would recommend to clients. You know..... guys who actually read the damn drawings. AND know how to operate a telephone and call you if they have a question. Unfortnately, I am not trying to be a comedian with these comments. Remember - residential builders are typically the least skilled labor force. Take your time. Ask and call references. Visit finished projects. How did the builder resolve problems as they arise..... and every project has problems. Good builders admit that and discuss how they address the issue to the satification of the owner/inspector/subcontractor/neighbor/designer. This shows if they are really professionals.
If you want the better HBA builders to look at your project, you need to call them personally, arrange a meeting at their office to review the project, and ask what it would take from them to invest in your project...... because that is what they are doing..... they want a return on their investment in your project..... just as you want a return on your investment. (its called profit).
For now, I would contact the local building departments. Ask for the residential inspector or CBO. Ask them who they think are builders suited to do a true custom designed home. They should be able to give you a few names. If there is a builder who is continually a problem during inspections - the local builder inspector knows them and certainly does not want to have to "battle" them on a good project such as yours.
Chris - feel free to PM if you'd like. |
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csintexas
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Joined: 06 Feb 2006
Posts: 1776
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 7:19 am Post subject: |
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I agree 100% spot on.
Actually I already had a few builders in mind but I was hoping to meet some new ones that are more technology savvy and can relate to this more unusual project. Maybe some that have a personal interest in "green" that I don't know about. If nothing else it was a justifiable excuse for shameless advertising. 
Here is the email I sent:
To all persons in the B/CS homebuilding community,
Hello, my name is Chris Stewart. I am a residential designer. I was raised here in B/CS and have been involved in various aspects of the home building community here since 1981.
I am assisting a client in designing and building a home and we are now getting close to the point of selecting a builder and developing final plans. Please take a look at this project http://www.inspiredhabitat.com/community/forumdisplay.php?f=25 (initial design stage) and respond if this is something that would interest you. Of course we will only be taking a very limited number of actual bids so at this point we are only trying to find and establish communications with builders who may be interested.
Thank you for your time,
Chris Stewart
Stewart Home Plan & Design
http://www.inspiredhabitat.com
I am please to have just one builder respond so far this morning. I have know this person for several years and he would have probably been on my short list anyway. He specifically mentioned a couple of green architect developed projects he has recently worked on.
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Chris Stewart
Modern Texas Home Project |
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usarender
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Joined: 01 May 2004
Posts: 1258
Location: San Diego, Ca
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 11:02 am Post subject: Reactionary Movements in Architectural Design |
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An interesting, amuzing note on Deconstructionalism as pertaining to the discussion on these forums and these postings in particular -->>
"It seems, then that architects in the past, and until today are constantly trying to re-define the aesthetic function in terms of reactionary individualistic contextual interpretation of a previous movement, in an attempt to re-codify the values in favor of an alternate solution. It seems this eternal dispute goes on, and these forums is no exception. One architect promotes his cause, gets a thousand posts to promote his design, concept, theories, viewpoint, way and means of design. Others come to make a statement, and immediately, those supporting a particular point of view immediately suggest there is no space for the promotion of an alternate reality or way of interpreting design or the world around us. These forums are not for the promotion solely of one architectural style, on architect solely, one designer solely, nor should one topic with a thousand posts be dominated around one central designer. There should be space for all to comment as they please and react in the way they find best, without being incriminated of "promoting bs". " |
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csintexas
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 11:22 am Post subject: |
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All well and good but let's stay on topic please and leave deconstruction and concept for the threads already established for that purpose -thanks
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Chris Stewart
Modern Texas Home Project |
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phansford
Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 534
Location: SW Ohio
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 11:42 am Post subject: |
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CS -
I think since you are trying to focus on sustainable design issues with your work, that might also help limit the type of builders that inquire about the project..... which is a good thing.
What standard are you going to use in determining the level of "green" - the new LEED for houses or something closer like Austin's program? I haven't seen anything to that matter either here or at Inspired Habitat - unless I missed it. |
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usarender
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Joined: 01 May 2004
Posts: 1258
Location: San Diego, Ca
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 12:50 pm Post subject: pre-determined line of thinking or free open discussion |
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A admire your cordially csintexas. Hats up.
A hot-tempered. overworked ill-willed counterpart would quickly dismiss all comments as a reason for debate.
However, please consider I am not deviating from the issue.
The idea of concept as it pertains to design affects all areas of architectural pursuit, and this is no exception. There are many ways to pursue a design, and each route is affected by how the concept is formed. This particular route of design is obeying a particular methodology of conceptual development, and is no exception.
It follows that there is no "rule of thumb", no pre-conceived idea that we as a community cannot post objecting comments, opinions, agendas or viewpoints within the thread of discussion. Further, it is natural and due that other architects should question the methodologies, practices or ways of thinking commonly adopted in architectural forums, to the extent that they may favor one particular sole way of viewing the architectural challenge. If this were the case, there would be only a select group of designers that are controlling all the posts and would leave no space for alternate points of view, alternate design solutions or ways of viewing the problem, outside the framework of a particular way of encountering a problem. So to request all posts stick to a particular way of thinking or design solution is asking more then a free forum is designed to produce. There is space for alternating viewpoints, even when they differ from the discussion. There is no single rule that says all threads must follow the same line of thinking, or must follow some type of class hierarchy, order, or comply with a particular methodology of design. If we are to use these forums to promote our individual design styles, opinions, and profession, we are excluding a world of users who wish to have more varied types of threads. |
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csintexas
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Joined: 06 Feb 2006
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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usarender,
I agree that we don't always have to stay on subject but when we already have a thread on "concept" for example it is irrational to spread that discussion among several threads and even double post the exact same response.
Also I think it should be up to the thread originator to decide if their thread should wander off topic or not. It would bring chaos to the forum if we just randomly post comments wherever we choose with no regard to which thread we where in. So I am just asking you to stay on topic for this thread. You are certainly free to do whatever you wish elsewhere in this community as far as I am concerned.
phansford,
Well I'm kind of making that up as I go. These clients are not particularly green so this is mostly a personal initiative. I'm going to the Green by Design workshop in Austin in October so I'm sure I'll get some ideas there.
Other than that "green" is still a bit of mystery to me. Passive design, Recycling, efficient appliances and lighting, etc..
I would really like to finish the foundation in a way that is attractive and does not require additional materials to cover it (but that is dependent on the owners acceptance).
I would also like to use local materials as possible. We have limestone and granite quarries within 100 miles also brick plants, etc..
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Chris Stewart
Modern Texas Home Project |
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phansford
Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 534
Location: SW Ohio
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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I would be interested in hearing how the Austin workshop goes. It obviously has gotten some national attention with the This Old House Project. I would love to get a copy of their checklist.
The limestone and granite might be pricey, but the close access to the brick plants will help reduce embedded energy. |
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csintexas
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usarender
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Joined: 01 May 2004
Posts: 1258
Location: San Diego, Ca
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 2:47 pm Post subject: These are Free Open Forumns ! |
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As mentioned earlier, no thread, line of discussion or designer can consider himself the owner of these forums or design community. To use the community to promote a single designer, or solely our own designs, and our own agenda is to use it in detriment of other postings on the community, that also deserve adequate placing in popularity and exposure. To use the forums to try to gain top listing as a single designer, and thus direct thousands of posts to one designer solely is a use in detriment of the other postings on the site. These discussions are open to the community at large and are not for the control of one individual solely. This should not be the intent of these forums. Otherwise, as stated, a small group of designers would be posting their projects all over the place and generating hundreds of pages of discussion around their work as designers, to gain publicity and be on the top of the forum at all times.
(AS IS HAPPENING HERE)
Designers have their own websites. People who have their own websites and discussion groups can post their projects and discussions there. If they have such spaces, why do they need to occupy this space ?
In the past, this residential design forum was not used in this manner. In fact, at the beginning, there were few relevant postings. Now, another extreme has emerged.
This is what some designers are doing and this is a clever marketing technique at best, and at worse, an exploit of the purpose and intent of these forums. No one architect, no one designer, no one cause should be designed in such a way as to hoard itself at the top of the community, in detriment of other postings. By posting a project design development from beginning to end as is being done here ends up dominating the community postings in detriment of others who wish to promote alternate discussions.
This should be a message to all who are using the community in this manner. If there is no control, it will continue to be used this way more and more and only a select group of designers will always be at the top of the forum discussions, with thousands of visits and being listed as the most popular discussion topics, and thus use the forum completely for publicity of their individual designs and work. The result is that all the other postings get pushed down to the bottom, become less popular, and thus get lets visits and exposure.
In my view, this is not the intent of these forums.
If there is freedom to do so, I think all designers here will start posting their projects and the community will be dominated only be these people posting projects, and the other postings and discussions will get completely lost and down at the bottom of the forum popularity list in a maze of designer postings, as there are thousands of designers who could start doing this. Not to mention the space that would be used on the design community servers.
We cannot be using this forum in an abusive way also to harass other causes, other agendas as some are doing, (and have done with my postings) by posting comments in detriment to the efforts of others, within their postings. This is being done in these community postings, with sarcastic, abusive comments that dis-regard the serious efforts of others to promote their programs, technologies, methods of design.
The forum is thus being used abusively by a small group of people who consider themselves the "intellectual thinkers" and thus post their comments all over the place to try to discredit the efforts of other designers and professionals, in an "intellectual way".
The behavior is obvious, apparent, cunning , intellectualized, sarcastic and "sneaky".
I cannot support the diminishing of other causes or postings in favor of a few members who, with with a moderate amount of instruction and practical experience, consider themselves the owners of truth.
All kinds of diminishing statements are being posted, including those who would dis-credit the Feng Shui approach to viewing the environment and architectural design. This is a despicable attitude, one that considers Western values, codes, attitudes, conservation efforts, design ideas to be superior and more "intellectualized" then Eastern viewpoints.
It even seems these forums are being viewed by only a select group of "western" designers, or western-minded designers that have no idea or knowledge of how Eastern thinking affects the elaboration of a concept, of a design and it's resulting practical application. They have no voice here, as there language is "inappropriate", "out of place", dis-contextualized and not in line with the status quo of thinkers who do the majority of posting on this site.
This situation needs to change. We cannot use this forum to promote self-centered Western thinking and methodologies of design.
Further, all types of sexually explicit postings are being placed in various locations of these forums, and so far have not seen much control in this regard. There was a time when these forums were to strictly monitored, and any small deviant comment was immediately removed, to the extent that members were beginning to complain. Now the opposite is happening. There seems to be somewhat a loss of the spirit and intent in a general sense.
This, being the case, opens up for all to post as they wish where they wish. To single out one individual or another and allow others to post sexually explicit messages would be to harass some and allow others to much freedom. There needs to be a balance. |
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csintexas
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Joined: 06 Feb 2006
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Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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Design Community is not promoting anyone over anyone else. We are all free to start a thread on whatever subject interests us. Everyone is equal here. I am not asking you to not respond to this thread but only to keep your post appropriate and on topic. (which is considered pretty typical standard politeness on all forums I have been to)
If you have something specific to say about this project (good or bad) you are welcome to make comments but if you are going to post a response to the discussion on concept than use the concept discussion thread.
If you want to start your own thread dedicated to criticizing me because you think I unfairly picked on your wacky ideas about creating the free global community than go ahead. I was just trying to help you get back to reality.
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Chris Stewart
Modern Texas Home Project |
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mx2
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Location: Miami, Florida
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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Chris, I have come to realize that "green" design does NOT necessarily have to meet some organizations rules and regulations, although those many organziations are doing good by organizaing and promoting "green" design. That said, by simply specifying and noting materials, labor practices and systems on any given project, even if only on some portion of the project, is a good goal to have. The tax credits, LEED certification, and other incentives to meet "green" standards are well intentioned, but they are not code, nor required. That translates to the simple fact that you can push for as much sustainable design as you want/can...that your client can afford, etc. My only other critical advise based on my very meager experience, is to begin early...begin specifying and designing at the schematic level, all the green ideas you can find. Later, you can "value-engineer" them one by one...and I agree with phansford: at most you ask maybe 5 or 6 builders and even then, that's a lot. But I would certainly invite at least one who specializes in "green" construction, if for the simple value of sitting with them and going over your project with them and learning quite a deal from the other end of a project.
mx2.5
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*Art of Architecture: The conscious use of skill and creative imagination in the production of an aesthetic building.
*Science of Architecture: The calculated use of technical skill and knowledge in the construction of a functional building. |
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phansford
Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 534
Location: SW Ohio
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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Chris - Try this button .....
USARender - Not that CS needs me to defend him, he posted this design and started this thread in Jan. He was asking for honest input and critique of the work to date. Most of the responses have been from other designers giving CS an honest and constructive crit of his work. Its clear by your posts that you have not read the entire thread. It is fair for some one to ask you to stay on topic. I have never seen CS post or respond to a post that he can provide a design for someone. Note that the regular posters don't respond to those requests.
And quite honestly, and I have a M Arch to prove it and have taught at the college level, No one and I mean NO ONE cites Frank Ching's text for 1st year students as a serious source for a theorical debate on "design concepts". That book is about the fundamental art prinicples in architecture (line, pont, plane, mass, scale, texture) and ordering principles (axis, datum, grid, classical orders, Modular) |
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phansford
Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 534
Location: SW Ohio
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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| mx2 wrote: | Chris, I have come to realize that "green" design does NOT necessarily have to meet some organizations rules and regulations, although those many organziations are doing good by organizaing and promoting "green" design. That said, by simply specifying and noting materials, labor practices and systems on any given project, even if only on some portion of the project, is a good goal to have. The tax credits, LEED certification, and other incentives to meet "green" standards are well intentioned, but they are not code, nor required. That translates to the simple fact that you can push for as much sustainable design as you want/can...that your client can afford, etc. My only other critical advise based on my very meager experience, is to begin early...begin specifying and designing at the schematic level, all the green ideas you can find. Later, you can "value-engineer" them one by one...and I agree with phansford: at most you ask maybe 5 or 6 builders and even then, that's a lot. But I would certainly invite at least one who specializes in "green" construction, if for the simple value of sitting with them and going over your project with them and learning quite a deal from the other end of a project.
mx2.5 |
Excellent comments as always. Like I have said before - now that the checklists are out there, more people will use them as guide and not necessarily try for certification and the costs associated with getting certified.
I think Chris is on the right track beginning in a builder early. Make them part of the "Team", not an afterthought. They can also provide cost estimating services to the client. It would be fair to ask the client to compensate the builder for estimating unless they are willing to commit to the builder. |
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usarender
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Joined: 01 May 2004
Posts: 1258
Location: San Diego, Ca
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 5:57 pm Post subject: I am surprised at your response |
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Phansford,
I am surprised, that you, with a Master's, somehow missed my point --->>
"To me a concept inspires, and can come from within, based on one's experiences, exposure to the architectural world, other syles, one's own ideas and, so to speak, "it is the inspiration that suddenly comes to mind, or light of inspiration" one receives after working arduously on a project seeking for a solution. So it must not be a mere copy of someone's architectural syle, nor must it be a mere incorporation of architectural elements from someone else's design. To often designers do this, and think they are incorporating the "concept" of the source architect. Frank Ching in his book illustrates the basic order of architecture, and this can be used to help one structure one's concept according to orderly principles. But, it is still not in essence the concept, although many use it (obviously, in an incorrect manner) as the "concept", the ordering principle. To me, "concept" encompasses Ching's orders and may incorporate architectural styles of other architects but goes much beyond this. It is the underlying principle, the underlying inspiration that enables an architect to have a vision that will unite the form, function and program requirements into one integral design or guiding idea. It can be in the form of a sketch, a mental image that leads to various sketches and organizational patterns, or it can be a concrete expression of a basic idea one is trying to achieve in order to resolve the architectural problem at hand. The word "concept" is thus the probably most widely mis-understood terms for students of architectural design, since many simply copy a style of another architect and call it a "concept". This is truly not a concept, but a decision to use the style or elements from another architect to help you form your own concept. Some have no concept in mind and simply imitate the style of another architect and may use orderly principles. In other cases, the concept is inherent and can be easily viewed and understood by the observer. If a building follows the order as established by Ching, it will be following the orderly principles that guide the formation of a concept, so the result will be your own application, or "concept" of the orderly principles as they apply to the design at hand, and as they apply to your own ideas, style, and way of applying the orderly principles in an aesthetic, artistic, function organization of the program spaces, in a way to create an inspired vision for the client.
I clearly stated that Ching's principles cannot be considered a "concept" in any sense. Copying the style of another architect also in not a concept. I was only using this to try to make a point that novice designers or those who fail to understand the principle of a concept in design can understand. Actually, the posting was intended to go in another location in design community, and was accidentally posted here. But, I found it amusing the see the response and actually it brought me to think of the implications of designers posting lengthly six month posts on these forums. Something is to be said in this regard, and nobody is speaking. It is high time someone speaks up. Especially since these people posting on these sections are the same people who are tying to sabotage in some way the efforts of others in other design community postings in order to promote or advance their own cause. This is also disturbing.
Whether this thread was starting in January or a Year ago, the result is the same, as noted.
If all designers were to place these types of postings here, there would be literally thousands of threads taking the space on these forums, and other discussion topics more general in nature would be lost in a sea of architectural designers promoting their projects.
I am surprised then that the full extend of my comments was not taken into consideration, nor was the content of what I wrote understood correctly.
Further, who can say what is "wacky" and what is not "wacky" ? We should respect the ideas, the viewpoints, the vision of other designers, and not be calling their ideas "wacky". At no point did I say I thought any of your ideas are "wacky". I respect other designers, and actually, as stated above, this post was accidentally posted in this section originally, and it was interesting to see the result.
Obviously is has proved my point - there is a tightly knit of people working with each other in various sections of these forums, supporting each other in detriment to the vision, ideas and inspiration of other professionals. This is what is most obvious.
Those who most need to see and realize this are obviously not the ones visiting this particular discussion topic. |
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