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mx2
millennium club
Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 1928
Location: Miami, Florida
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 Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 2:16 pm Post subject: Crack control |
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Okay, here's a story to share...architect doesn't show stucco control joints, stucco goes up on a very curvilinear building and HUGE vertical cracks show up...it was spec'd but contractor demands change order at $20 a linear foot...
mx2.5
_________________
*Art of Architecture: The conscious use of skill and creative imagination in the production of an aesthetic building.
*Science of Architecture: The calculated use of technical skill and knowledge in the construction of a functional building. |
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88
Joined: 15 Nov 2005
Posts: 74
Location: usa
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| Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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| I typically have control joint for about every 100 ft2. You need to show them on elevation and align them with doors/window... etc or contractor would just put them anywhere and screwed up a good facade. |
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birgco
Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 298
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| Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 6:10 pm Post subject: crack control |
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mx, I had a similar problem on a recent job with huge vertical cracks. I used a product called Crack and Asphalt Patch. It worked perfectly on a plumber and tile man who had no idea of the horrible visual impact of their problem on the job site.  No seriously, I think the contractor was inexperienced. Any good mason or stucco man should have known that expansion joints should have been installed. At the very least they should have asked. |
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SDR
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Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Posts: 1664
Location: San Francisco
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| Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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Stucco -- the pasta of the building "kitchen." Too bad our palates are so attuned to starch. . .and our buildings are often satisfactorily completed with the oddity of a coat of hardened frosting on the surface.
Perhaps I'm biased toward other architectural materials, but I think that those who ask for stucco are "asking for it," and deserve what they get !
Oh well, I wasn't raised far south enough, apparently.
SDR
_________________
"I'm the commander . . . see, I do not need to explain why I say things. That's the interesting thing about being the president. Maybe somebody needs to explain to me why they say something, but I don't feel like I owe anybody an explanation." GWB |
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mx2
millennium club
Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 1928
Location: Miami, Florida
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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LOL!!!..the "pasta" of buildings???...that's funny. But it is a cousin of the plaster that has historically been used for eons, even on many Greco-Roman structures apparently (some say many of the clssics had bright colors, rather than the stark white structure thqat has been left behind).
The fact of construction life down here is all things attached to the outside of all buildings are prone to flight....in a hurricane that can mean disaster and therefore C.M.U. is the choice building material but it's not pretty, so...it's stuccoed. Not to mention concrete masonry is easy to manipulate with low-wage workers. Brick and humidity don't go well together and it's expensive, tilt-up is a specialty and worth it by scale of economy only, and of course wood framing/sheathing/finishing is simply not sensible in wet, hot, humid, hurricane prone region.
So stucco it is...!
But birgco is right...an experienced contractor would immediately have asked and known that 144 sq. ft. is the max stucco can be applied. And the icing on that cake was when a few days ago, our office did another site visit to inspect the stucco finish and it was supposed to be smooth finish...instead it looked like rough textured finish, even where they had corner beads the stucco looked rounded and chipped, like some rustic adobe finish. Needless to say, we stopped all requisitions for payment and instructed them to repair it. Oh, and they're saw cutting new control joints...(not the best solution, but better than nothing). Like 88 said, when it's all said and done, "we" should have located them and called them out on the drawings. Best to design the joints and avoid any hassles after-the-fact. Never heard of crack and asphalt patch...I'll have to look that up. I'm not sure what was done to patch it up...I'll try to follow up.
Or, like SDR says...just say no to the "building pasta"! We could always leave the block exposed and painted instead!! Just kidding...
mx2.5
_________________
*Art of Architecture: The conscious use of skill and creative imagination in the production of an aesthetic building.
*Science of Architecture: The calculated use of technical skill and knowledge in the construction of a functional building. |
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SDR
millennium club
Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Posts: 1664
Location: San Francisco
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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Don't laugh ! I'd rather see (properly laid) CMUs painted than stuccoed. Nice-looking concrete block, well-assembled (the raking sun is the surest test) is nothing to apologize for -- but it has always been the architect's painful task to have to point such obvious truths out, to the rest of us. Of course, a couple of worthy and inspiring examples will make the case far better than un-illustrated rhetoric !
Could it be that a trade from indifferently-laid block + stucco, to better-made unadorned block, might be an economic "wash" ? I don't pretend to be conversant with current building costs, either in your area or mine. . .
SDR |
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birgco
Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 298
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| Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 6:40 am Post subject: crack control |
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mx, I was serious about the contractor should have known about the expansion joints, but jeez, I was kidding about the "crack and ass fault patch". Old joke about plumbers and tile men creating "visual problems" on the job. Oh well, I guess if it needs explaining it's not a very good joke........  |
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SDR
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Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Posts: 1664
Location: San Francisco
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| Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 7:00 am Post subject: |
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| Clue: "Don't bend over. . .!" (Old prison n' plumber joke.) |
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mx2
millennium club
Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 1928
Location: Miami, Florida
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| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2007 10:52 am Post subject: |
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Ha! Crack and As-phalt...it never dawned on me. Mostly because you wrote asphalt perfectly...and for one who's never heard the joke...
I will remember it. Can't wait to use it in the office...
as for CMU...I prefer unpainted well built concrete masonry, but it's not a good shell in terms of moisture barrier. The paint would be a better moisture barrier but it just looks like a prison...
mx2.5
_________________
*Art of Architecture: The conscious use of skill and creative imagination in the production of an aesthetic building.
*Science of Architecture: The calculated use of technical skill and knowledge in the construction of a functional building. |
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SDR
millennium club
Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Posts: 1664
Location: San Francisco
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| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2007 11:15 am Post subject: |
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Hmm. . . So, maybe a clear sealer ? Or a double wall of half-thickness blocks (a la the rainscreen concept) ?
One of the most intriguing ideas I've seen is sandblasted CMU; the surface is apparently greatly enhanced by this treatment. A small Taliesin-inspired home featured a few years ago in Fine Homebuilding had this treatment. Hard to tell from the photos alone, but it piqued my interest. . .
SDR |
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mx2
millennium club
Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 1928
Location: Miami, Florida
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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I assume you mean this for institutional buildings...would you want a residential project to be all unfinished concrete masonry? It would look like we were viewing a naked building...like the client ran out of money and couldn't afford to stucco it. What wrong with stucco? Don' you like a robust hacienda? Think rough textured painted deep red with tropical plants a waterfall and tons of light splattered across its face...
or grey concrete block.
mx2.5
_________________
*Art of Architecture: The conscious use of skill and creative imagination in the production of an aesthetic building.
*Science of Architecture: The calculated use of technical skill and knowledge in the construction of a functional building. |
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