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dr.suz
Joined: 29 May 2004
Posts: 7
Location: Seattle, WA
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Kevin
Site Admin
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 1075
Location: Eugene, Oregon
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 Posted: Sun May 30, 2004 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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You need local professional help to answer these questions. For instance, it would be impossible to give accurate advice about the foundations without at least inspecting them. And it would be irresponsible. Similarly, the local code needs to be interpreted very carefully. Someone knowledgable needs to determine exactly what "remodel the current A-frame with the same framework and footprint as the old" means.
BTW, it's not really true that "an A-frame foundation is mostly a lateral force hold". Gravity pulls downward in direct proportion to the mass of a structure, whatever it's shape and internal stresses. Nonetheless, whether the current fundations would be safe and proper for an expanded stucture is still not a theoretical long-distance question.
To address such fundamental structural issues, you need the direct professional services of a licensed structural designer, architect or engineer.
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dr.suz
Joined: 29 May 2004
Posts: 7
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Sun May 30, 2004 4:55 pm Post subject: A-frame |
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Thank you.
I know that I need local expertise, alas the deal's on the table and those experts are not in until Tuesday (I'm going to general contractors and the city planners again next)...I could get some time for due diligence, but I want to know if the idea is preposterous to begin with...I mean I'm the one who thought of building [i]around[/i] the A-frame (nobody has bought this because the city says once it's torn down there's no buildable area on the lot)...
Anyway, from the little statics I had, I know the gravitational forces are downward but the A-frame "spreads" at the bottom and involves about half the total weight of an equally tall rectangular structure. So, I wondered if there needs to be more foundation (likely) and of a different type. What would keep the costs down is to maintain the interior of the A-Frame (which is 35 feet tall! And it's fully appointed) and just tie in the extra floor space, extend walls, etc.
I called some architects, and though I haven't purchased they want a clean $1,000 or a percent of the prospective value of the project just to tell me if it's at all possible. Ouch.
I think I wanted to know if it's a ridiculous proposition, given the city's strict limitations. Some city codes allow one wall to be left intact and it's called a "remodel"...here, the entire FRAME must be left intact, the same footprint used, and then you can add on.
I'm excited yet scared of this, it could be a great thing or a nightmare...must be careful, trying to get as much info as possible. Thank-you again!
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Kevin
Site Admin
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 1075
Location: Eugene, Oregon
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| Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2004 12:36 am Post subject: |
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If "the entire FRAME must be left intact, the same footprint used, and then you can add on," and you can add new framing in addition to the old, then the addition is almost certainly possible - though at what cost, who knows?
If the original foundation was well-made, fairly recently, then it is likely it has excess capacity, and could handle additional loads. Common residential foundations are usually not closely designed. But even if more foundation is needed, it could probably be added inside the original. That's a common approach used in improving historical houses.
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dr.suz
Joined: 29 May 2004
Posts: 7
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2004 2:40 pm Post subject: thanks |
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| Thanks...salient advice...am meeting with architect/construction co. tomorrow and will tell them all of this. Thank you again. The propery is very special, or I wouldn't be going to this trouble.
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Kevin
Site Admin
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 1075
Location: Eugene, Oregon
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| Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2004 11:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Good luck! Let us know sometime how your adventure turns out.
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dr.suz
Joined: 29 May 2004
Posts: 7
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2004 2:27 pm Post subject: Meeting with architect |
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$1500 geotech
$1500 structural engineer
$2-3000 building permit
$15,000 auger pilings
$25,000 demolition and removal of debris
$2-3,000 for even simple architectural plans
$? upgrade utilities, etc.
$46K just to get started
he didn't recommend building on to the A-frame because of issues with probable fill dirt being used to create parts of the building plane
<sigh>
My next step, since another previous interested party had already done these reports...is to see if I can buy them off them on the cheap (why re-do them?)...they decided it'd be too expensive to get this started.
If I could low-ball the offer I could live in the <ugh> A-frame for a while as it is. However, I don't think the seller would accept anything much lower.
If you're interested, I'll post what happens...(the saga continues!)
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Kevin
Site Admin
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 1075
Location: Eugene, Oregon
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| Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 12:34 am Post subject: |
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| Need for geotech in a residential project varies with specific location. Can't be dismissed out of hand.
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dr.suz
Joined: 29 May 2004
Posts: 7
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 8:19 am Post subject: reply |
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I agree...I know the studies have already been done by another potential buyer so I'm going to try to locate them and offer to pay for part of the costs...might've been too expensive for them, may be for myself, too.
The realtor's own father lived on the property, but she's not forthcoming about engineering or geo-tech data. She says she's still trying to "dig up" the names and numbers of the other interested persons. She did say it'd be a house best suited for someone who just liked the A-frame (implying "that's it"?)...
Also, she lists the square footage as 2,038 yet it sits on a 20X36 footprint...this cannot be possible!
REALTORS...why do we pay them 6% equity for 10 days of work? I read somewhere it can take the average homeowner 6-10 years of house payments to achieve what they scrape off, and they act so ENTITLED. It's a mini-mafia.
Is there any way to make an A-frame less ugly externally?
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Kevin
Site Admin
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 1075
Location: Eugene, Oregon
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| Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 11:39 am Post subject: |
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Not only are realtors expert at expressing entitlement to their very-standard cut, but when architects started getting just a tiny bit organized around standardizing their cut, typically well under twice what realtors get for a whole heck of a lot more work, responsibility, and liability, the Feds did a very heavy anti-trust number on the AIA. Anyway...
A separate, more open-ended thread on ideas in general for remodeling A-Frames might stir up some interesting suggestions and discussion!
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dr.suz
Joined: 29 May 2004
Posts: 7
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 4:33 pm Post subject: interesting |
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very interesting...you'd think "price fixing", i.e. charging a percent of value being illegal in other veins would apply to realtors...
lawyers also get away with it...
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dr.suz
Joined: 29 May 2004
Posts: 7
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2004 12:14 am Post subject: revisited |
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It really is, an A-frame, it's just truncated in the front, for a foyer and carport, but looks classically A-frame in the rear.
Went to county tax assessor's office, and they say it's 1580 sf...more like what I'd thought as opposed to the 2000+ on the real estate listing...
in fact it's less than 1500 if you account for the sloped walls, in essence you cannot stand right up next to them or even put much furniture there, either. They've cleverly chain-sawed (or somehow) cut cabinets and even a few dressers to fit the angled walls (you can fit about one sock in the top drawer!)
Not sure about this, as the taxes are going to go to $5K soon, and if it's remodeled we're talking $8K...all because of the view...
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