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Donald
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
Posts: 493
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 Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 3:17 pm Post subject: Mideast summit cease fire? |
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Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas and Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon have declared a cease fire. Naturally, the Islamic killers that run Hamas aren't going along with it. Cease fires aren't good for the death business, you know.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1504&e=2&u=/afp/20050208/ts_afp/mideastsummitceasefire_050208163408
Didn't Hamas in declare an all-out "until the last Jew is dead" war on Israel first? It may well be that there will be no real peace in the Middle East until the Islamic radical movement is thoroughly defeated  |
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rikilabellevie
Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Posts: 24
Location: belgium
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| Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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i absolutely agree with you that terrorist don't like ceasfire
but what ceasefire means imo it means 2 clear side accepting for a definite time to "cease " ,let say ,un necessary attacks
is that agrreed by all  don't think so
yet it's not a sustainable status quo as it is
links
http://www.jpost.com/ |
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SDR
millennium club
Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Posts: 1712
Location: San Francisco
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| Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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Right. Or maybe Israel could finally admit that it squats on land taken from Palestinians by Big Brother, only 58 years ago, and that it could have been a LOT less dismissive of the displaced, all these years. (You've heard, of course, of the Israeli citizens, living all these years in houses formerly owned by Palestinians, who had not been told who those previous owners were, and chose to believe that the properties had simply been abandoned. . .?)
The real injustice, though, has been the relentlessly one-sided treatment of the two parties by our own government. It's just so much easier to side with "the winner," who is sure to reward you in turn, than to be scrupulously fair and even-handed -- which is the ABSOLUTE DUTY of the powerful, in any situation.
How sad that we, Big Brother, do not feel we can "afford" to exercise such a brand of diplomacy.
So, Mr Arafat is gone. Perhaps the Palestinians will have a chance to be taken seriously, again. We can only hope. . .or is there more we could be doing?
SDR |
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Donald
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
Posts: 493
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| Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 8:47 am Post subject: |
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Is Mahmoud Abbas a peacemaker for the Palestinian people? Charles Krauthammer says maybe, maybe not. Only time will tell, but nothing is certain:
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/charleskrauthammer/ck20050211.shtml
As he has indicated, "its not land for peace.... its peace for peace.
And now a tenuous truce has begun. Of course, at some point Hamas and the other terror groups will surely try to destroy the cease-fire. It could happen tomorrow. At that point Abbas -- and the Palestinians as a national community -- will have to decide whether to take them on. If they do, they will have their state. If they don't, they are back on the roadmap to ruin." |
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SDR
millennium club
Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Posts: 1712
Location: San Francisco
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| Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 11:35 am Post subject: |
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Charles Krauthammer is a paranoid dick; the only pleasure to be had, in his company, is when Nina Totenberg is there to laugh him off of his flimsily-constructed pedestal.
"Oh, CHARLES. . .!" |
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Richard Haut
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Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 1135
Location: Nice, France
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| Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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Hamas was set up by the Israelis over thirty years ago as a counter to Arafat's Fatah.
Israel had a chance of peace (again) and has thrown it away (again).
The "fence" is a ghetto wall - all that remains is to see which side the ghetto is on.
after more than half a century, isn't it time that Israel got by without its ever-present begging-bowl. I thought that Americans did not approve of "welfare-dependence".
_________________
Richard Haut has worked with the architectural profession for over 25 years and produces the weekly Richard Haut's Competitions, which has given architects details of many thousands of projects for which they can apply across Britain and Europe. |
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Donald
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
Posts: 493
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| Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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No, it is the Islamic goon squad thats called "Hamas" that has declared the US to be the "biggest enemy of Islam," and didn't Hamas ideclare an all-out "until the last Jew is dead" war on Israel first?
While George Bush may or not be Islam's greatest enemy, it is a certainty that Islam is perhaps the greatest foreign enemy of the American people. Now I say "foreign enemy" because I absolutely believe that the threat posed to our freedom and economic liberty by the left in general, and the Democratic party in particular, constitutes a greater threat to our future than Hamas or its violent Muslim followers.
As for Bush being Islam's greatest enemy. That's a good thing. The world certainly needs more enemies of Islam ... at least until Islam gets its radical elements under control |
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SDR
millennium club
Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Posts: 1712
Location: San Francisco
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| Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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. . .I THINK I've finally identified Donald's primary source of information:
Rush Limbaugh.
How sad. SDR |
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Kevin
Site Admin
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 1113
Location: Eugene, Oregon
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| Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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But when Donald posts valuable analysis supporting penetrating conclusions like
| Quote: | | maybe, maybe not. Only time will tell, but nothing is certain |
Don't you think it's so compelling as to overlook the discredited psuedo-journalstic source?
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Richard Haut
millennium club
Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 1135
Location: Nice, France
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| Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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Donald,
the history of Zionism is not an attractive story.
America has lost enough troops, money and credibility over the anti-Muslim stereotyping.
learn something about Islam before insulting it - and then learn something about Judaism to see why Israel's actions are such a disgrace to the history and culture of the Jews.
sure bin Laden is an evil man - and so is Sharon.
_________________
Richard Haut has worked with the architectural profession for over 25 years and produces the weekly Richard Haut's Competitions, which has given architects details of many thousands of projects for which they can apply across Britain and Europe. |
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LindaP
Joined: 31 Jan 2005
Posts: 29
Location: down south
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| Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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| My SO recently read a really interesting book (so he claims) about Islam because he wanted to understand it before he tried to bash that side of the world and, what seemed to us, some bizarre and misguided notions. He read The Nature of Islam -- (I think I got the title right) -- and has really seen the world differently after understanding the history and nuances of the Islamic nations. [/i] |
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SDR
millennium club
Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Posts: 1712
Location: San Francisco
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| Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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Many of the world's problems stem from a very common human failing, the inability or unwillingness to even TRY to see the "other side's" point of view. Peoples' wants and needs are really very much alike, everywhere. But there is a too-little understood mechanism at play in human psychology, whereby one places one's own failings into a "box," to placate the apparent demands that occur early in the parent/child relationship, and then goes back to that box when one is looking for some "dirt" to throw at the "enemy"; all of this happens "behind our back," in the subconscious. The very things we so hate about the (unknown) "other" are things we feel strongly about in ourselves.
Unfortunately, we don't like to admit the existence of our subconscious (with all those unlikable traits we've had to push in there), so even the simplest discussion about psychological matters is strongly resisted. If mankind can evolve to the point where such things are more widely understood and discussed, there will be a good chance that people will be educated about them as a matter of course, and the ritual, moralistic rules and unexplained proscriptions to "unacceptable" behaviors, that we now control ourselves and each other with, will start to be replaced by a self-awareness and its natural social benefits, which we now experience only as a matter of occasional, fortunate inspiration on a "good day."
SDR |
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LindaP
Joined: 31 Jan 2005
Posts: 29
Location: down south
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| Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | The very things we so hate about the (unknown) "other" are things we feel strongly about in ourselves.
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Very well put. Hard to overcome -- such a human, innate flaw.  |
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Donald
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
Posts: 493
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| Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2005 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Many of the world's problems stem from a very common human failing, the inability or unwillingness to even TRY to see the "other side's" point of view. |
A common human failing - by Clinton...and lets tie this back to the thread please, as like it or not, Israel's war on Hamas is America's too. What's the difference between Israel killing Ahmed Yassin and our trying to kill Osama Bin Laden? Absolutely nothing.
Hamas's civilian operations, however, hardly made Yassin a civilian in any sense that mattered. To the contrary, he was head of a terrorist organization that is well on its way to operating its own mini-state in Gaza. State sponsors of terrorism and terrorist sponsors of states (Hamas in Gaza, Hezbollah in Lebanon, Al Qaeda in Afghanistan) are two sides of one coin. None of these entities are or were "civilian" in the sense of being ordinary criminals. The primary instruments with which to deal with them are not arrest warrants and courts but diplomatic pressure and, if necessary, military action.
That was why Clinton had every right to drop a cruise missile on bin Laden. Clinton understood that Al Qaeda was making war on America, even if neither he nor the public yet understood the stakes. He failed, and failed miserably.
Isn't the context different? There are no peace talks with Al Qaeda that a hit on bin Laden might derail, but the Middle East requires a diplomatic solution, which Israel's heavy-handed violence threatens to foreclose. Right?
Not really. There is at present no peace process in the Middle East, just a forlorn plan for one, fluttering in the wind. Hamas, more than any other single factor (believe it or not), is responsible for that. Like Al Qaeda, Hamas is a radical Islamist organization that swears it will not rest until it has brought Muslim territory under Islamic rule. For Al Qaeda, the territory at issue is the whole of the Arab world, plus the Spanish peninsula and other parts of Europe, plus ideally North America; for Hamas, the relevant territory is all of Palestine, meaning all of today's Israel plus the occupied territories. The theaters are different, but the battles—America's against Al Qaeda, Israel's against Hamas—are of a piece. |
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