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Richard Haut
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Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 1137
Location: Nice, France
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 Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 8:03 am Post subject: the destruction of ancient Babylon |
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the destruction of the ancient city of Babylon for use by the US military.
from: http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1293931,00.html
"At Babylon, I have seen the continuing construction projects, the removal of and digging into the ancient mounds over the past three months, despite a coalition press release early in June stating that work would halt, and the camp would be removed.
A helicopter landing zone, built in the heart of the ancient city, removed layers of archeological earth from the site. The daily flights of the helicopters rattle the ancient walls and the winds created by their rotors blast sand against the fragile bricks. When my colleague at the site, Maryam Moussa, and I asked military personnel in charge that the helipad be shut down, the response was that it had to remain open for security reasons, for the safety of the troops.
Between May and August, the wall of the Temple of Nabu and the roof of the Temple of Ninmah, both sixth century BC, collapsed as a result of the movement of helicopters. Nearby, heavy machines and vehicles stand parked on the remains of a Greek theatre from the era of Alexander of Macedon. The minister of culture has asked for the removal of military bases from all archeological sites, but none has yet been relocated. "
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Richard Haut has worked with the architectural profession for over 25 years and produces the weekly Richard Haut's Competitions, which has given architects details of many thousands of projects for which they can apply across Britain and Europe. |
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Richard Haut
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Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 1137
Location: Nice, France
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| Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 8:43 am Post subject: |
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they are US helicopters, Donald - US military vehicles and diggers.
I am sure that there are local looters as well as American ones - but the destruction of Babylon is far greater even than the massive looting.
it is wanton destruction.
it is cultural barbarity.
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Richard Haut has worked with the architectural profession for over 25 years and produces the weekly Richard Haut's Competitions, which has given architects details of many thousands of projects for which they can apply across Britain and Europe. |
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Richard Haut
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Joined: 18 Apr 2004
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Location: Nice, France
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| Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 9:31 am Post subject: |
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Architecture began in Iraq - your troops are too careless or barbaric to care.
You don't care either.
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Richard Haut has worked with the architectural profession for over 25 years and produces the weekly Richard Haut's Competitions, which has given architects details of many thousands of projects for which they can apply across Britain and Europe. |
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Richard Haut
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Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 1137
Location: Nice, France
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| Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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Babylon was not destroyed in the original attacks, nor in any fight.
It is being destroyed because your troops do not care and lied when they said that they would stop causing the damage.
or perhaps you consider the damage described as "protection".
it is historically the way that barbarians show contempt for other cultures.
it would seem to be 100% in line with your view of Muslims.
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Richard Haut has worked with the architectural profession for over 25 years and produces the weekly Richard Haut's Competitions, which has given architects details of many thousands of projects for which they can apply across Britain and Europe. |
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Richard Haut
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Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 1137
Location: Nice, France
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| Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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Donald we all saw the pictures of the MiGs next to the Ziggurat years ago. (Next you will be pretending that there was a reason for the bombing of the Monastery at Monte Cassino ..........)
None of it explains why the Americans are today destroying Babylon.
However much you search around for other bits to try to distract, it is simply the case that your troops are causing wanton and massive damage to one of the world's great historic sites.
There is no Saddam to blame. Al-Sadr isn't flying those helicopters, is he ?
They are Americans who probably think that it is funny.
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Richard Haut has worked with the architectural profession for over 25 years and produces the weekly Richard Haut's Competitions, which has given architects details of many thousands of projects for which they can apply across Britain and Europe. |
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Richard Haut
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Location: Nice, France
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| Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2004 3:03 am Post subject: |
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the reports are eye-witness reports, backed up by the Iraqi requests for the cessation of the wilful destruction of historic sites.
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Richard Haut has worked with the architectural profession for over 25 years and produces the weekly Richard Haut's Competitions, which has given architects details of many thousands of projects for which they can apply across Britain and Europe. |
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Richard Haut
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Joined: 18 Apr 2004
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Location: Nice, France
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| Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2004 8:51 am Post subject: |
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it was an eye-witness report from the Guardian.
as you are fully aware the link was given at the beginning of this thread.
American troops are wilfully causing massive damage to the site of the ancient city of Babylon.
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Richard Haut has worked with the architectural profession for over 25 years and produces the weekly Richard Haut's Competitions, which has given architects details of many thousands of projects for which they can apply across Britain and Europe. |
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Richard Haut
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Joined: 18 Apr 2004
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Location: Nice, France
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| Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2004 9:46 am Post subject: |
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we shall just have to wait and see when some independent observers get there, won't we ?
maybe they will find the WMD on the way.
in the meantime, I will take the word of the Guardian over your word.
their opinions and reporting - while I do not always agree with them - have a history of honesty in intent.
yours of course do not - you are a self-confessed bigot who dismisses anything that doesn't suit your agenda as "lies" and seizes on anything that backs it up (however tainted) as justification.
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Richard Haut has worked with the architectural profession for over 25 years and produces the weekly Richard Haut's Competitions, which has given architects details of many thousands of projects for which they can apply across Britain and Europe. |
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Richard Haut
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Joined: 18 Apr 2004
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Location: Nice, France
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| Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2004 10:17 am Post subject: |
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I trust the Guardian.
You trust Fox News.
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Richard Haut has worked with the architectural profession for over 25 years and produces the weekly Richard Haut's Competitions, which has given architects details of many thousands of projects for which they can apply across Britain and Europe. |
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Richard Haut
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Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 1137
Location: Nice, France
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| Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2004 11:47 am Post subject: |
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I am hardly going to take your advice on whom I should trust, am I Donald ?
go back to watching Fox News - it is aspartame-for-the-mind. Sweet, poisonous and a delight to the Republicans.
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Richard Haut has worked with the architectural profession for over 25 years and produces the weekly Richard Haut's Competitions, which has given architects details of many thousands of projects for which they can apply across Britain and Europe. |
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Richard Haut
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Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 1137
Location: Nice, France
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| Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2004 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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Wasn't the Arkhita market in central Baghdad by any chance ?
If it was, then you might not like the reason that they looked happy.
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Richard Haut has worked with the architectural profession for over 25 years and produces the weekly Richard Haut's Competitions, which has given architects details of many thousands of projects for which they can apply across Britain and Europe. |
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Richard Haut
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Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 1137
Location: Nice, France
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| Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2004 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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Donald
it is a sales pitch for a promotional fair at which a significant proportion of the speakers appear to be US and British military and diplomats.
to swallow this as "news" or an objective view is feeble.
or do you think that a British Lt. Col. is some sort of expert on matters of investment (if you do, I would suggest that you have very limited experience of British officers).
it is a marketing pitch (sales "propaganda").
as usual you calculatedly use biased information misrepresented as fact.
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Richard Haut has worked with the architectural profession for over 25 years and produces the weekly Richard Haut's Competitions, which has given architects details of many thousands of projects for which they can apply across Britain and Europe. |
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Crista
Joined: 05 Sep 2004
Posts: 1
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| Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 5:04 am Post subject: Babylon/Ur |
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I was in Babylon a month ago, and visited Ur today. In the process of researching Ur for an article, I came across the discussion you two are having.
I can assure you, despite what damage may have been previously inflicted on Babylon by the merciless wind of the helicopters, it is currently in a the pristine state of a museum. The only military I saw there was Polish, with a smattering of American troops. The Polish are staying at Saddam's former palace there, which is itself in a dilapidated state. The reason for this is that there are plans to excavate the land beneath the palace, since he built a hill underneath it. It's believed to be built over a section of ancient Babylon.
As for the replica of the gate of Ishtar, Nebuchadnezzar II's city, the maze, and the Lion of Babylon, not only are all intact and untouched and not vandalized in any manner, but there are signs ALL OVER THE SITE, in both Arabic and English, begging persons visiting to respect the ancient ruins.
That is not to say that looters have not visited the cursed city of Babylon over the course of millenias. But when I visited, the only thing falling apart and vandalized was Saddam's palace.
As for Ur, I met with the caretaker this morning. He is the third generation of caretakers, Iraqi. His son will take care of the site after him. He told me that there has been no vandalism to Ur or the house of Ibrihim or the Royal Burial grounds since the War. Unfortunately, because the site is next to a military camp, Iraqi nationals have not been visiting as much. While I was there, I met with Italians and Romanians in addition to american soldiers, so when the caretaker explained to me that he shows Ur to people of the world, he may have meant Soldiers of the world. The only place I have seen the words 'Semper Fi' were on a bunker, which is not, at least yet, an important relic of Iraq. And it was not spelled 'Semper Fe' as this Ed Vulliamy spelled it in his article. I have not found anything else referring to vandalism of the site. What the site does need, however, is some archaeologists. That don't mind spending a little time with the Coalition. |
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Richard Haut
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Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 1137
Location: Nice, France
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| Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 5:45 am Post subject: |
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I am very pleased to hear that the US military vehicle encampment is gone.
There seem to be considerable numbers of archaeologists from around the world who are trying to get to the sites to help, with organisations like UNESCO being actively involved.
The Iraqi curators for sites and museums seem to have been making desparate efforts to protect them against looters (of whatever nationality).
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Richard Haut has worked with the architectural profession for over 25 years and produces the weekly Richard Haut's Competitions, which has given architects details of many thousands of projects for which they can apply across Britain and Europe. |
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Richard Haut
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Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 1137
Location: Nice, France
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| Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2004 10:38 am Post subject: |
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I, and I am sure many others, would be interested to know where Crista is publishing her article.
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Richard Haut has worked with the architectural profession for over 25 years and produces the weekly Richard Haut's Competitions, which has given architects details of many thousands of projects for which they can apply across Britain and Europe. |
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